Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

You exercised free will when you started this thread and every time you posted to it.
Surely you do not believe you did this because God foreordained it.

People making choices does not in any way address what the Bible teaches about man's will being enslaved to sin, blinded to the truth, unable to hear, incapable of submitting, a lover of darkness, refusing to come into the light, hearing the gospel as foolishness, unable to receive or comprehend the spiritual things of God, to which he is opposed and to Whom he is hostile toward. Thinking your will is free simply because you can choose the colour of what socks to wear or what to have for lunch has no bearing on the eternal fate of your soul and mixing it in with what the Bible teaches about the estate of fallen man is just silly.

 

[Howdy]

People making choices does not in any way address what the Bible teaches about man's will being enslaved to sin, blinded to the truth, unable to hear, incapable of submitting, a lover of darkness, refusing to come into the light, hearing the gospel as foolishness. Thinking your will is free simply because you can choose the colour of what socks to wear or what to have for lunch has no bearing on the eternal fate of your soul and mixing it in with what the Bible teaches about the estate of fallen man is just silly.

Maybe I misunderstand, but are you saying we have no choice in accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior?

 

[Cameron143]

Like expecting you to name your personal pastor isn't too much already. Just bizarre.
It just gets worse and worse. The Bible foretold this after all. The Bible also says those
from the world speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them.

Jesus' words in John 15 verse 19 and John 14 verse 17 ~ If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him.

I actually don't mind sharing with those who are seeking truth, but I don't want to cause headaches for him.

 

[Magenta]

Maybe I misunderstand, but are you saying we have no choice in accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior?

Wherever did that come from? Gosh. I did not even mention believers. I was referring to the unregenerated,
which those in the free will crowd believe are free to choose even though the unregenerated person is a
slave to sin and lover of darkness REFUSING to come into the light, opposed to the spiritual things of God.

 

[Howdy]

Maybe I misunderstand, but are you saying we have no choice in accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior?

Glad I brought a smile to you, but I am serious.
I may not be the brightest light in the room, so could help me understand what you meant by your post.

 

[Magenta]

Glad I brought a smile to you, but I am serious.
I may not be the brightest light in the room, so could help me understand what you meant by your post.

I mean that the Bible teaches that the natural man, meaning he who is as yet unregenerated, is a slave to sin. Some are even said to be taken captive to the will of the devil. Do you really see freedom in that? They are blinded, incapable of submitting, hostile in their minds to God, lovers of darkness, defined as darkness itself, refusing to come into the light, opposed to the spiritual things of God. None of this speaks to man's freedom of ability to choose. God must move to change the heart of man, for it is with the heart that one believes. Then some in the free will crowd scream about God being an unjust tyrannical monster if He acts unilaterally, and almost always being enabled is misappropriated to mean one is forced. Although Scripture does say those given to Jesus WILL come. It does not say we choose to or that some are given and decide against. Just a straight-up statement of fact. So obviously not all are given to Jesus because not all come.

 

[cv5]

The natural man can't receive the Gospel or the law of God UNTIL God saves them....According to the calvies.

Pointless mumble jumble to our sons until God saves him.....According to the calvies.

They are more or less doomers man. Thats about the size of it.

Positively ghoulish. And the hating on the "hopelessly depraved non-elect sinners". It never stops.

 

[Howdy]

I mean that the Bible teaches that the natural man, meaning he who is as yet unregenerated, is a slave to sin. Some are even said to be taken captive to the will of the devil. Do you really see freedom in that? They are blinded, incapable of submitting, hostile in their minds to God, lovers of darkness, defined as darkness itself, refusing to come into the light, opposed to the spiritual things of God. None of this speaks to man's freedom of ability to choose. God must move to change the heart of man, for it is with the heart that one believes. Then some in the free will crowd scream about God being an unjust tyrannical monster if He acts unilaterally, and almost always being enabled is misappropriated to mean one is forced.

Thanks, now I understand.
But I believe every man will be moved by the Holy Spirit at some point in their life.
It may happen only once, but it will happen.
The danger is when a person rejects that opportunity they often come to the state you described and there is no hope.

 

[Magenta]

Thanks, now I understand.
But I believe every man will be moved by the Holy Spirit at some point in their life.
It may happen only once, but it will happen.
The danger is when a person rejects that opportunity they often come to the state you described and there is no hope.

They don't come to that state. They are already in that state. Children of wrath. The gospel is hid to them. They cannot
comprehend. And yet the free will crowd believes that person chooses to believe what they hear as foolishness.

 

[Howdy]

They don't come to that state. They are already in that state.

I disagree.
That would mean God chooses who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell and man has no choice.
That is what Calvinism teaches.

 

[fredoheaven]

This continual conflation is why this thread rages...

The truth is >>>>>> our complete inability to contribute to our eternal life is wholly separate from our inability to receive the free gift of eternal life by exercising personal faith.

Completely wrong and dishonest to mashup these two distinct ideas.

Appreciate this observation. Thanks

 

[Magenta]

I disagree.
That would mean God chooses who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell and man has no choice.
That is what Calvinism teaches.

What exactly do you disagree with? I referenced a slew of Bible verses. Tell me which ones you are opposed to.

 

[Howdy]

What exactly do you disagree with? I referenced a slew of Bible verses. Tell me which ones you are opposed to.

I learned a long time ago that those who believe in Calvinism will never change their mind so see no reason to continue.
Thanks for your friendly reply.

 

[Magenta]

I learned a long time ago that those who believe in Calvinism will never change their mind so see no reason to continue.
Thanks for your friendly reply.

Yeah, people call me a Calvinist and use that as an excuse not to address the Scriptures I give.

Some do address some of them but often only to contradict and deny what the verses actually say.

So I see your cop-out for what it is.

 

[fredoheaven]

Yes. Those who are in Christ are saved. Those who believe the Gospel

I'll try to rephrase yours which I believe will alligned biblically. You may please correct me if my understanding is not the same as yours. Thanks
'Yes, those who are IN Christ are those who believe the Gospel and are saved.'

 

[Magenta]

Some of the things free will promoters say which directly contradicts what the Bible teaches:

Everyone hears. The gospel is not hid. God is unfair.

I say, people do not decide to believe what is foolishness to them.

The unbeliever can no more circumcise his ears to hear than he can circumcise his heart to love God.

True understanding necessitates a transformation of the heart. Man's heart is incurably wicked.
That means he cannot change himself. But what is impossible with man, is possible with God.

Jesus came to open the eyes, ears, and hearts of those who would believe. He came to call sinners. We have
heard here that when Scripture says none are good and all sinners are slaves to sin it only means certain people.
Well, to me that just comes across as more denying and contradicting what Scripture says.
It contradicts and denies what Jesus said. So much of what FWers claim does that.

 

[fredoheaven]

1 Timothy 1:16 KJV — Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
To be born again or to be regenerated is to have life everlasting. What is required is to believe in Christ.
Calvinism reverse this fact.

 

[Magenta]

Let us add to that list that some claim spiritual revelation is not necessary... which again contradicts the
very words of Jesus Christ Himself. Revelation is necessary in order to know Who Jesus Christ is. Knowing
Him, Who He is, is the essence of possessing eternal life. If you do not possess that, you are lost.

Matthew 16 verses 15-17 ~ What about you?” Jesus asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven.

 

[Magenta]

John 17 verses 2-3 ~ You granted Him authority over all people, so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him. Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom You have sent.

 

[Genez]

I understand that line of thought. Except a natural disaster i see that as neither good nor evil. Because you have to be alive (if that is the right word) to be good or evil a tornado is not alive. That is a man made definition for sure.

Yes... Man's thinking can be evil.
And, what that thinking produces could be called an evil.

This is how the word 'disaster' might fit the meaning to the ancients.

The winds blew hard and brought a great evil upon the city.

A great evil came over their city. Etc.

Its because of seeing evil used in only one way that some distort the Bible to haver us believe that God created some people evil.