Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Evil requires a change in one's thinking (repentance) to be made free of it.
That requires learning sound doctrine in order to know what to think in regard to the evil of our natural choice.
According to R. B. Thieme, this is absolutely crucial.
In fact God taught Moses, David and Paul doctrine first and foremost. And then they were to guard it, cling to it, and promulgate it.
 
But not all angels could do that. Angels are first and foremost spirits (Ps 104:4; Heb 1:14). And did the demons that requested Christ to send them into a herd of swine have bodies? Or when Satan entered Judas, he did so sporting a body?
God de-bodies the troublemakers.
 
According to R. B. Thieme, this is absolutely crucial.
In fact God taught Moses, David and Paul doctrine first and foremost. And they were to guard it, cling to it, and promulgate it.

Your bosom buddy forgot that evil also requires a person to be free FROM their old heart and be given a new one, since the heart is the fountainhead of evil.
 
I've never said man is inherently evil, but it is easy to see that something was corrupted in man after sin. Adam and Eve experienced shame and fear almost immediately and covered themselves and hid from God. Later, Cain experiences anger and commits murder and experiences depression as his countenance fell. None of this was present before sin.

right none of that was present until man who was given dominion over the earth knew good and evil.

“Cain experiences anger and commits murder and experiences depression as his countenance fell. None of this was present before sin.”

cain wasn’t yet captured by sin God told him “ do what’s right cain and you will be accepted , but if you don’t do what’s right sin is waiting to get you and is crouching but you cain must rule over sin “

that’s the whole point of why I wuoted all those repetetive verses beginning with when they came to know good and evil

They weren’t supposed to have that knowledge of good and evil that’s the corruption

“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What they did caused man to o ow both good and evil and now they have to choose between good and evil like he told cain , like he told israel , like the prophets proclaimed again and again , like Jesus apostles teach like Jesus taught ect

when we hear that we’re meant to choose between good and evil , but our response is “ I can choose I’m not capable “ we’ve lost because of the wrong information on our mind that’s how Satan deceives us . He wins if he convinces man” you have no choice but to serve my will “


Cain was rejected because of his actions then god warned him to straighten up and do good tether than evil told him if you do good you’ll be accepted but if you don’t sin is going to have you “

it hasn’t changed even today it’s why I wuoted from all those different parts of of t he Bible about choosing between good and evil

just like cain it’s true for …
“Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:34-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Your right man was corrupted thier minds where the knowledge resides was corrupted with good and evil we aren’t designed to constantly be pulled between good and evil like this

“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See they aren’t just evil but good and evil are co flirted within a sinner that’s the corruption and what we need saved from . We aren’t supposed to be like that it’s why he told them “don’t eat that fruit of that knowledge it isn’t for you “

Mankind is made in his image and likeness made to operate based upon what he says aboit good and evil his judgements and not try to determine good and evil ourselves “ as gods “ man is made to trust the lord our creator because he loves us . But the inowledge of good and evil creates a constant conflict on man between good and evil like Paul’s talking about there . It’s why our spirit and flesh are opposed because we have a ln internal conflict within us between good and evil and have to choose the good now

adam originally didint have to choose anything or be saved he just needed to listen to God and trust his word

cain also didint need salvation like we do he just needed to heed Gods word , to repent and do good like his brother did but of course he solved it his way he determined what to do and rejected Gods word to repent and do good.

awe all have light and darkness in us good and evil inclinations one man struggles with honesty another man struggles with lustful ideations ect ect pride on and on are the flaws of man but we all have some flaws and issues of some kind

some more than others of course but also himans fo incredibly selfless and loving things good tings for the right reasons as well true it’s not as often as the evil or anything but my point is we’re capable of doing good or doing evil just aren’t perfect and can’t continually do not good all the time without the lord

If we forget our own judgements and let Gods word construct them from ground up it renews our original purpose and place in his order our problem is the knowledge we believe inside

That curruption of knowledge is solved by the gospel the truth

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭
 
right none of that was present until man who was given dominion over the earth knew good and evil.

“Cain experiences anger and commits murder and experiences depression as his countenance fell. None of this was present before sin.”

cain wasn’t yet captured by sin God told him “ do what’s right cain and you will be accepted , but if you don’t do what’s right sin is waiting to get you and is crouching but you cain must rule over sin “

that’s the whole point of why I wuoted all those repetetive verses beginning with when they came to know good and evil

They weren’t supposed to have that knowledge of good and evil that’s the corruption

“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What they did caused man to o ow both good and evil and now they have to choose between good and evil like he told cain , like he told israel , like the prophets proclaimed again and again , like Jesus apostles teach like Jesus taught ect

when we hear that we’re meant to choose between good and evil , but our response is “ I can choose I’m not capable “ we’ve lost because of the wrong information on our mind that’s how Satan deceives us . He wins if he convinces man” you have no choice but to serve my will “


Cain was rejected because of his actions then god warned him to straighten up and do good tether than evil told him if you do good you’ll be accepted but if you don’t sin is going to have you “

it hasn’t changed even today it’s why I wuoted from all those different parts of of t he Bible about choosing between good and evil

just like cain it’s true for …
“Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:34-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Your right man was corrupted thier minds where the knowledge resides was corrupted with good and evil we aren’t designed to constantly be pulled between good and evil like this

“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See they aren’t just evil but good and evil are co flirted within a sinner that’s the corruption and what we need saved from . We aren’t supposed to be like that it’s why he told them “don’t eat that fruit of that knowledge it isn’t for you “

Mankind is made in his image and likeness made to operate based upon what he says aboit good and evil his judgements and not try to determine good and evil ourselves “ as gods “ man is made to trust the lord our creator because he loves us . But the inowledge of good and evil creates a constant conflict on man between good and evil like Paul’s talking about there . It’s why our spirit and flesh are opposed because we have a ln internal conflict within us between good and evil and have to choose the good now

adam originally didint have to choose anything or be saved he just needed to listen to God and trust his word

cain also didint need salvation like we do he just needed to heed Gods word , to repent and do good like his brother did but of course he solved it his way he determined what to do and rejected Gods word to repent and do good.

awe all have light and darkness in us good and evil inclinations one man struggles with honesty another man struggles with lustful ideations ect ect pride on and on are the flaws of man but we all have some flaws and issues of some kind

some more than others of course but also himans fo incredibly selfless and loving things good tings for the right reasons as well true it’s not as often as the evil or anything but my point is we’re capable of doing good or doing evil just aren’t perfect and can’t continually do not good all the time without the lord

If we forget our own judgements and let Gods word construct them from ground up it renews our original purpose and place in his order our problem is the knowledge we believe inside

That curruption of knowledge is solved by the gospel the truth

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭
cain wasn’t yet captured by sin God told him “ do what’s right cain and you will be accepted , but if you don’t do what’s right sin is waiting to get you and is crouching but you cain must rule over sin

Yes, it is true that this VERSE confounds super-deterministic philosophy. But there is more to it than that.

The account presents a SCENARIO, a PRECEDENT that has been purposefully codified.
And the precedent confounds super-deterministic folly all the more.

Anyone can observe the same teaching in hundreds of others similarly. Hundreds.
 
But not all angels could do that.

Before some of the angels fell?
They all could do that.

As for those who remained with God and can materialize?

"Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people
have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it."


Hebrews 13:2​
 
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We are to confess our sins. (1 John 1:9)
Not told to confess our evil.

Evil requires a change in one's thinking (repentance) to be made free of it.
That requires learning sound doctrine in order to know what to think in regard to the evil of our natural choice.

The following passage speaks of evil, not simply sin.

"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death" (Proverbs 14:12​
"Seems right?" = how one thinks about a matter.

I may lust in my heart when thinking about what I would like to do with a pretty woman.
That is sin.

Rationalizing and convincing myself that it is perfectly fine to think such thoughts and others should also?
That is evil.

Evil can become a mental guardian to keep a sin alive and active.
Evil can be what we wrongly choose to believe to give an excuse for a sin.

Also....
In this world?
Evil can be anything that produces what we refer to as "a bad thing, or bad effect."
Like a disaster.

Before the fall, Adam and Eve, were living in a perfect environment.
They had no need to have a concept of good and bad/evil.
For anything they did, they freely did as they pleased.

The only thing forbidden them was the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

I understand that line of thought. Except a natural disaster i see that as neither good nor evil. Because you have to be alive (if that is the right word) to be good or evil a tornado is not alive. That is a man made definition for sure.

I have a hard time thinking about this rationalizing concept as well. When we are talking about yourself. Your inner perception who are you rationalizing anything with? Yourself? That would require two differt minds. Like a good side and a bad side presenting an argument in your mind and the thing really driving the car picks a side.
 
right none of that was present until man who was given dominion over the earth knew good and evil.

“Cain experiences anger and commits murder and experiences depression as his countenance fell. None of this was present before sin.”

cain wasn’t yet captured by sin God told him “ do what’s right cain and you will be accepted , but if you don’t do what’s right sin is waiting to get you and is crouching but you cain must rule over sin “

that’s the whole point of why I wuoted all those repetetive verses beginning with when they came to know good and evil

They weren’t supposed to have that knowledge of good and evil that’s the corruption

“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What they did caused man to o ow both good and evil and now they have to choose between good and evil like he told cain , like he told israel , like the prophets proclaimed again and again , like Jesus apostles teach like Jesus taught ect

when we hear that we’re meant to choose between good and evil , but our response is “ I can choose I’m not capable “ we’ve lost because of the wrong information on our mind that’s how Satan deceives us . He wins if he convinces man” you have no choice but to serve my will “


Cain was rejected because of his actions then god warned him to straighten up and do good tether than evil told him if you do good you’ll be accepted but if you don’t sin is going to have you “

it hasn’t changed even today it’s why I wuoted from all those different parts of of t he Bible about choosing between good and evil

just like cain it’s true for …
“Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:34-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Your right man was corrupted thier minds where the knowledge resides was corrupted with good and evil we aren’t designed to constantly be pulled between good and evil like this

“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See they aren’t just evil but good and evil are co flirted within a sinner that’s the corruption and what we need saved from . We aren’t supposed to be like that it’s why he told them “don’t eat that fruit of that knowledge it isn’t for you “

Mankind is made in his image and likeness made to operate based upon what he says aboit good and evil his judgements and not try to determine good and evil ourselves “ as gods “ man is made to trust the lord our creator because he loves us . But the inowledge of good and evil creates a constant conflict on man between good and evil like Paul’s talking about there . It’s why our spirit and flesh are opposed because we have a ln internal conflict within us between good and evil and have to choose the good now

adam originally didint have to choose anything or be saved he just needed to listen to God and trust his word

cain also didint need salvation like we do he just needed to heed Gods word , to repent and do good like his brother did but of course he solved it his way he determined what to do and rejected Gods word to repent and do good.

awe all have light and darkness in us good and evil inclinations one man struggles with honesty another man struggles with lustful ideations ect ect pride on and on are the flaws of man but we all have some flaws and issues of some kind

some more than others of course but also himans fo incredibly selfless and loving things good tings for the right reasons as well true it’s not as often as the evil or anything but my point is we’re capable of doing good or doing evil just aren’t perfect and can’t continually do not good all the time without the lord

If we forget our own judgements and let Gods word construct them from ground up it renews our original purpose and place in his order our problem is the knowledge we believe inside

That curruption of knowledge is solved by the gospel the truth

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭
Adam chose between good and evil every day...eat or don't eat. Knowing evil doesn't mean having an intellectual understanding of evil. It is referring to experiencing good and evil. All the things I shared are the experience of evil. Inherent in knowing something is good is knowing the opposite is not. What Adam had not experienced was the actual effects sin would have on him. After sin, he was different. His heart wasn't the same. He experienced fear and shame. His mind was different. He began acting independently of God by hiding and covering himself. His nature was changed. We see this in his affections and actions.
 
Are you saying the spiritual aspect of angels cannot be corrupted?
Do you have a verse?

No I am not saying that. Read it again, along with what else I said. They are spirits, they don't have a spirit just as we don't have souls, we are souls. Being a spirit is the essence of who they are just as being a soul is the essence of who we are. Their spirit cannot return to God when they die like ours can. They are not given a spirit, they are spirits. Ecc.12:7

Where's the evidence of your claim? You are fond of making claims but rarely give any reasons beyond generalities if that. When I gave you the opportunity to explain in detail, your bowed out very quickly.
 
@Rufus striking out again eh? Not surprising. Not even a little bit.

Take it easy on him.
He is very frustrated.

He wants to assume a domineering position over others.

But, he is refusing to suffer for righteousness’s sake, what is needed for such a position to be done in humility.
He is running away from the humiliating, ego busting experience, of realizing how stupid one can be.
That humiliation will transpire when one exposes himself to sound doctrinal teachings.
Very few men can and will teach that way.

As for my experience?
When exposed, I felt absolutely stupid and dumbfounded to find out how wrong I was concerning the meaning of certain truths.

That is why Paul warned Timothy as to why we will find so many egocentric teachers among us today.

For the time will come when they will not put up with/endure/ tolerate/ sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers
to say what their itching ears want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3​

Teaching sound doctrine is not for winning a popularity contest among believers.
It could make one very unpopular during times of great apostasy.

If one should find such teaching becoming popular?
It would mean something different than simply appealing to what believers like to believe.
It would reveal that a true Word of God revival is taking place.

For God would be drawing in the positive ones who have accepted their cross, and are being moved by the Holy Spirit.

grace and peace....
 
No I am not saying that. Read it again, along with what else I said. They are spirits, they don't have a spirit just as we don't have souls, we are souls. Being a spirit is the essence of who they are just as being a soul is the essence of who we are. Their spirit cannot return to God when they die like ours can. They are not given a spirit, they are spirits. Ecc.12:7

Where's the evidence of your claim? You are fond of making claims but rarely give any reasons beyond generalities if that. When I gave you the opportunity to explain in detail, your bowed out very quickly.
They are spirit beings, but they still possess minds, hearts, and wills. Just as these facets of humanity were corrupted by sin, so too have they been corrupted in fallen angels.
 
They are spirit beings, but they still possess minds, hearts, and wills. Just as these facets of humanity were corrupted by sin, so too have they been corrupted in fallen angels.

Fallen angels lost their right to have a body to materialize with to enjoy their living in a material created world.
They are not drawn in by sinful desires of the body.
They simply hate what is good. What they have been denied.
 
Fallen angels lost their right to have a body to materialize with to enjoy their living in a material created world.
They are not drawn in by sinful desires of the body.
They simply hate what is good. What they have been denied.
You have a scripture saying this?
 
Adam didn't know God was good?
Adam didn't know not eating the fruit was good?

Right.

And the LORD God said...

“The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.
He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the
tree of life and eat, and live forever.”


.