Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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1 Cor 2:14 does mean what it says ... it says that those who are carnal cannot understand the deeper spiritual things of God which are spoken of in 1 Cor 2:6-16.

You can deny this truth all the livelong day ... which only reveals that you are the one who is not receiving the things of the spirit of God because they are foolishness to you and you cannot know them because they are spiritually discerned.





no contradiction between what is written in 1 Cor 1:18 and what is written in 1 Cor 2:14 as discussed in Post 4835.





more indirect indictment nonsense ...
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Unregenerate believers are not "carnal"? What are they: Holy, Righteous and Good just like God? Is the "natural" man just like the spiritual man who can understand by God's grace?

Don't you know that Darkness does not comprehend the Light?

John 3:19-20
19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people
loved the darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed
ESV

And the wicked cannot help but hate the light since they cannot shun evil apart from the sovereign gift of the Fear of the Lord being imparted to their hearts under the New Covenant (Prov 3:7; Jer 32:40)! Yet, shunning evil is the very essence of spiritual understanding (Job 28:28)
 
Unregenerate believers are not "carnal"? What are they: Holy, Righteous and Good just like
God? Is the "natural" man just like the spiritual man who can understand by God's grace?

Don't you know that Darkness does not comprehend the Light?
It really does go well beyond ridiculous what they promote. And then they deny it.

Romans8-7a-Galatians5-17-John1-5-John14-17.png

Romans 8 verse 7a, Galatians 5 verse 17, John 1 verse 5, John 14 verse 17 ~ The mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. The flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. Darkness does not comprehend the Light. The world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him.
 
Okay let's add "fools" and "blind" to that list of accusations (heaped upon those you consider as losers in the pre-birth lottery) that is reverberating through your head 24/7.

So, you came into the world as Light? You were not born spiritually blind in the Darkness of Death?
 
Some people say nothing really changed, that is, human nature did not change, and yet, as a result of Adam's
sin, we are now born by nature children of wrath. Another dagger to the heart of the Pelagian heretics' view.
I wonder how well "children of wrath" sits with those who think they have debunked claims of the natural man.
It's evident from nearly the onset of sin that something is very different with Adam and Eve.
 
If all the rebellious angles are not found in heaven how did saten walk right in? In the story of Job. In revaluations it states and the dragon fought with Micheal with his angles and neither was thier place found in heaven any more. So fallen angles still have access to heaven. Just as fallen men still exist on earth. Revalatiins 12-7 through 9 directly state that. The devil or Satan which deceived the whole world he was cast out into the earth and his angels were cast out with him.

Where do you get this idea they were cast out when man was cast out? I am curious why you even think this. Do you think the war in heaven amd revaluations has already happened? That is the only way you could possibly come to that conclusion.

Yes, Satan was cast out out heaven at the Cross! Moreover, even the Job passage does not say what you think: It does not say that Satan entered Heaven (God's holy abode/temple). All that Job 1:6 says it that the "angels came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan came with them". You're reading "heaven" into the passage. They could have just as easily presented themselves in one of the lower heavens to the Lord.

And I didn't say the angels were cast out at the same time that Adam was ejected from the Garden. The angles fell first, were cast down to the earth, then A&E sinned -- then Adam was driven out from God's presence in the Garden.
 
It's evident from nearly the onset of sin that something is very different with Adam and Eve.

Sin is a fatal disease for which there is no human cure, for sin affected the entire man -- body, soul, heart (mind, emotions, conscience and volition). There's not one pure molecule in man's body. The whole man is sick from the top of the head to the soles of the feet -- ZERO spiritual soundness in fallen man (Isa 1:5-6).
 
post the verses which indicate the gospel cannot be understood ... and I'm talking about the gospel, not other bits of wisdom from God ... and I'm talking about verses which state mankind cannot understand ... not that what is written is rejected.

and if you do not believe there is a difference between "cannot understand" and "rejection of what is written" ... you've got a problem.






so rather than deal with the truth that 1 Cor 1:18 actually indicates those who are perishing can understand the gospel ... that they reject the gospel and think it is foolishness, you lump me in with "liars, like the evil one, love lies and contradictions ... and feed off of them!" ... just more of the venomous vitriol of the birds of a feather ...
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I did. Try to keep up.
 
Sin is a fatal disease for which there is no human cure, for sin affected the entire man -- body, soul, heart (mind, emotions, conscience and volition). There's not one pure molecule in man's body. The whole man is sick from the top of the head to the soles of the feet -- ZERO spiritual soundness in fallen man (Isa 1:5-6).
Scripture does say nothing good lives in our flesh ... and it serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death... and that man's heart is incurably wicked ... but these Pelagian heretics don't like it when Scriptures like those are quoted to them.
 
The Irony?

What is the witness of the calvies on this very thread?

None can believe to be saved, and all choose eternal fire/death.

Why do you lie so much? The lies just roll off your lips, don't they? No one here said what I just bolded above. In fact, I myself have very often quoted passages to the contrary!

Acts 18:27
27 When Apollos wanted to go to Achaia, the brothers encouraged him and wrote to the disciples there to welcome him. On arriving, he was a great help to
those who by grace had believed.
NIV

Count this "calvie" as one who believed by God's grace and whose heart God purified by faith (Act 15:9) -- you know the faith that is God's precious gift to his chosen ones (Eph 2:8-9).

So yeah...God's elect most certainly CAN believe to be saved.
 
In fact they go into paroxysms of knee jerk reactions symptomatic of CDS because
they refuse to acknowledge that man's inability is not exclusive to Calvinism. Unfortunately
they present themselves as incapable of learning and having no desire to align their views
with truth. All in favour of their beloved man-exalting philosophically based false doctrine.
 
Scripture does say nothing good lives in our flesh ... and it serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death... and that man's heart is incurably wicked ... but these Pelagian heretics don't like it when Scriptures like those are quoted to them.

FWers have no love for the true Gospel of Light because the gospel does not portray mankind in a positive way. The Darkness hates the Light and the FWers are proof of this truth!
 
no.





no.

God said And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is becomeas one of us, to know good and evil (Gen 3:22).

Are you disagreeing with the Bible?
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So, since fallen mankind isn't inherently good like God is, then what exactly is man moral's condition?
 
no.





no.

God said And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is becomeas one of us, to know good and evil (Gen 3:22).

Are you disagreeing with the Bible?
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Does Gen 3:22 contradict Jesus' assessment of mankind? Or does Gen 3:22 contradict Isa 1:5-6?
 
so that mankind can be stirred in the depths of his being when God reveals Himself ... or comes knocking

Good insight.

As I continue to tune in to threads like this and to read the harsh line drawn by some re: what man is and how God hates him, I periodically get drawn back to how God has made Himself known in all men and how men are created in His likeness.

As such there is an inherent dignity in man as God's image-bearer and in God having made Himself known within all of His image bearers, we all have a deep relational identify that we along the way and at some point, accept or reject for varied reasons.

This suppression you've identified several times is active and volitional. Not welcoming the things of the Spirit is active and volitional. On the other hand, receiving is active and volitional.
 
FWers have no love for the true Gospel of Light because the gospel does not portray mankind in a positive way. The Darkness hates the Light and the FWers are proof of this truth!

Actually, we're the ones who do see and love the ability of the Light - which is Jesus Christ who gives light to all men - to shine in darkness and overcome it.

BTW, men being personalized as darkness has to do with "sons of disobedience".
 
Freewill.png

"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.
Problem is.... every time you present these beautiful pictures, with words embedded?

When replying, it does not carry over to the conversation.
Unlike a conversation, as if you also had printed out the words free from the picture to be quoted with the format we are using here.

So, I will do my best to begin with what you stated from within the picture. Printed out in a manner that now can be quoted by the other person and be used to respond to you with.
As you now have it? You have been cutting yourself off with what you have been using.
After taking the time to copy your words and put them into usable fonts..
I now realize that there is substance to what you said, and not just to be seen as background music with flowers.

Now... Here is what you stated.

"FREE WILL" IN THE BIBLE?
Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5:13).
We need Jesus to "set us free" (Galatians 5:1).
If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are slaves to sin. (Romans 6:6-7)
Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit. (2 Corinthians 3:17)
Only Jesus can give us true freedom. (John 8:36)
Only through His loving kindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature
that is inherently hostile toward God.

Now those are good points!
I would have loved to address them, and even agree.

But, it is impossible to do so unless the one responding took all the time needed to first transcribe your words
to be used in a manner that this format requires.

As it is. The way you have it? Is just like stopping the flow of a talk show with an advertisement which we pretty much ignore
as a station break, and move on without considering words we can not quote, and refer to.

Maybe you can find a way to make your comments quotable? And, not disruptive to the flow of the narrative?
To be seen by others with beautiful pictures accompanying your comments, so those reading along can know what the one who is responding to you can relate to, and continue with a cohesive flow?

As it is right now? Your pictures are like a pleasant looking station break which at a distance is relating to the ongoing conversation, but can not be taken seriously because there is no way to quote your words to see what another would want to continue with. I over time, have learned to skim over what you post for that reason. Some others have too.

Your art work is beautiful.
But one is not able to respond to you with what you are saying without doing all the work of printing out the words in fonts to do so.
Work you should be doing if you wish to hold free flowing a conversation with another.

Otherwise? It becomes typically like ignoring a station break that is advertising something.
Your words in that post were worthy of responding to.
But, not as you keep presenting them, to do so.
It just takes too much time to make it work with the 'REPLY' function cutting off your words, when other posts are needing one's attention.

Can you find another way?
Your pictures are beautiful.
But after a while I found myself just skimming over them because the words can not be posted to respond to.
The picture you created ends up unseen when it is placed in the quote section in response.

Keep them going.
But, please find a way, so the ability to quote what you say can be addressed directly as well.

Grace and peace .............
 
Actually, we're the ones who do see and love the ability of the Light - which is Jesus Christ who gives light to all men - to shine in darkness and overcome it.

BTW, men being personalized as darkness has to do with "sons of disobedience".
Actually the Bible says the whole world is under the power and influence of the devil. Are you really saying men are born as light and lovers of light? That those who are blinded can actually see? Gosh. It gets more and more bizarre the things you say. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God. Let's hear you come right out and say that the person as yet not born again is governed by the Spirit of God. Scripture says they are incapable of submitting to God. Does that translate as, they are obedient, to you?
 
It means that as a result of man's sin, he was no longer as he was created.

And, that was the way God wanted it to be.

For God is to use fallen man as a teaching tool for the angels to study and see the devastation that could have taken place if God merely allowed for both the fallen and elect angels to continue on as they were before some angels fell.

Can explain that if you wish.
 
Since I haven't stated that the natural fallen man is evil continually, not sure why this is directed towards me.

"Natural fallen man" (hereafter NFM) is indeed evil continually, just like the wicked antediluvians were before God wiped them off the face of the earth. Here are the reasons I say this:

1. NFM cannot shun evil apart from God imparting his gift of the Fear of the Lord in their hearts (Jer 32:40; Job 28:28)

2. NFM cannot please God without faith (Heb 11:6)

3. NFM does nothing from faith and is, therefore, sinful (Rom 14:23)

4. NFM does not live for God, therefore he does nothing for the glory of God which is man's chief end (1Cor 10:31).

5. NFM does nothing in word or deed in the Name of Jesus or give any thanks to the Father (Col 3:17)

6. NFM is by nature an enemy of God (Rom 5:10)

6. NFM naturally hates God and is, therefore, under a curse since he has no love for Him (1Cor 16:22)

7. NFM is naturally Darkness itself, loves the Darkness and will not come to the Light (Jn 3:19-20)

8. NFM is an object of God's wrath by nature (Eph 2:3)

Therefore, for these reasons alone (including others I likely haven't thought of) NFM's righteous/good deeds performed solely on the horizontal level can only be as "filthy rags" in God's eyes (Isa 64:6).