Well you can theorize all you want, but the bible says that God spoke directly only to Adam prior to the Fall. And this makes sense, and explains why the evil one singled out Eve because he knew she didn't have any empirical evidence of God's existence. He figured Eve would be easier pickings. And he was right! Everything she knew about God prior to the Fall came from Adam.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Well you can theorize all you want, but the bible says that God spoke directly only to Adam prior to the Fall. And this makes sense, and explains why the evil one singled out Eve because he knew she didn't have any empirical evidence of God's existence. He figured Eve would be easier pickings. And he was right! Everything she knew about God prior to the Fall came from Adam.
Very true. Of course the laws will always be holy but the standard to stand in front of God is perfection. As to why the High Priest had to do so many rituals just to be perfectly cleaned (atoned) for a short period.
I respect your effort to resist assumptions and understand the other person.
It is easy to just spout the typical anti-Calvinism or anti-Arminianism scriptures or talking points without understanding that not all hold strictly to the definitions in those models.
How so? Nobody chooses God first. No worldly person is seeking Him. They are blinded and opposed to the spiritual things of God, slaves to sin, lovers of darkness, refusing to come into the light, under the power and influence of Satan, unable to comprehend or know God. That is what Scripture actually says. Not, the person who hates God will decide to believe in Him, and believe the foolishness he hears when the gospel is preached... but that God enables us, makes us alive in Him while we were yet dead in our tresspasses, draws us with loving kindness to engender repentance. Quite a few here minimize what it is to be born after Adam, the incurable wickedness of man's heart to them is good ground for growing the Seed of God's Word into faith but that again contradicts what Jesus said. A bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. It is with the heart that one believes and we cannot change ourselves. It is the work of God, and a promise He made to do so.
If all were given all would come. Obviously all are not given.
None are without excuse because they know God exists but did not give any glory to Him. But creation does not proclaim the gospel message.
Scripture says it is not because of anything we have done.
God commanding unbelievers to believe in Christ is not them saving themselves, it is obedience in surrender to Christ to do what they could never do themselves. Typical strawman arguments.
Scripture says the mind set on the flesh is inherently hostile to God and cannot submit to His law. Something has to change first.
The person without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God... is his mind set on the spiritual things of God? Scripture says no.
It says that person is OPPOSED to the spiritual things of God and hates God. They refuse to come into the light.
You're talking about human ability and God who knows how to work with it perfectly.
Why don't you post and explain where Scripture tells us man is darkness. And maybe you can explain how light and darkness are played against one another and what it means for Jesus to be light, for His Word to give light, and how He and John and Paul deal with these things. And so on...
It is if the efficacious, primary cause for their faith is their volition. If it's their "freewill" that ultimately triggered God's response, then that "freewill" would be the primary cause for them choosing to be in Christ. Yet, Paul tell us that the saints are in Christ entirely by God's doing, not ours (1Cor 1:30)! Therefore, God's grace must have been efficacious and made the difference between one choosing to repent and believe or choosing to reject the gospel.
Ephesians 5:8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord.
Darkness does not comprehend the light. Not that you asked. Just a simple statement of fact.
It also refuses to come into the light. Another Scriptural truth denied by the free will crowd.
I cited the passage in my 4468: Eph 5:8!
Maybe you can spin that text to make it say that "you were formerly twilight"?
Or maybe they were simply children of the night, taking after their former father the Prince of Darkness whose seed they used be? How's that for a "novel" idea?
I agree, no one chooses God first.
I've explained that the blinding was judgement after rejection.
This is my point. God moved first working within mankind to save as many as those who would believe.To examine this in harmony. If Christ died for all. God wants all to be saved. God draws all. And salvation is for all who would believe. Then why did God choose a few while the many He chose for Hell?
Belief is not a work of legalism. It is commanded by Jesus. We are commanded to believe and accept what Christ has already done.
And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool [afternoon breeze] of the day,
so the man and his wife hid and kept themselves hidden from the presence of the Lord God among the trees
of the garden." Genesis 3:8
They did not see Him.
They knew the sounds of His footsteps.
It is believed the Lord used to teach Adam in the cool part of the day.
She was with Adam when the Lord arrived.
Knowing the sound of his footsteps indicates they had been in presence before!
I know it is not legalism but Scripture says the unregenerate man (of the flesh) is UNABLE to submit. Therefore, something has to change first.
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." John 6 verse 44 The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2 verse 14 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 verse 7-8
That is just the opposite of what I said.
You seem to have this consistent ability to misunderstand things.
I will give you most of that point lol
But there was a time they both existed in the garden before the apple was nibbled on. It was a small portion of the time.
And the rib which the Lord God had taken from the man made he a woman and brought her unto the man. Gen 2-22
Like a father walking a bride down the isle. And considering 2 verses later it talks about man and wife. That is the analogy I get from that verse. So I say she knew and heard God
I
It is exactly free will that condemns mankind for rejecting Christ. Otherwise it would be the will of God for those to reject Christ. And that is not God's will. But yes, God works in all so that none are with excuse. It is entirely on us for just judgment to choose Christ or reject Him.
It is exactly free will that condemns mankind for rejecting Christ. Otherwise it would be the will of God for those to reject Christ. And that is not God's will. But yes, God works in all so that none are with excuse. It is entirely on us for just judgment to choose Christ or reject Him.
I know it is not legalism but Scripture says the unregenerate man (of the flesh) is UNABLE to submit. Something has to change first.
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." John 6 verse 44 The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2 verse 14 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 verse 7-8
I agree. I just simply see that God does everything He can to save the sinner and provides many opportunities to change and move them towards belief. He moves first or else we would stay very content in our natural state.