Israel.

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Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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So what if I am? Those verses don't change the Abrahamic Covenant.
He received two covenants is I think what you are missing one represented by his illegitimate fleshly child ishmael born of mans will , and one represented by Isaac who came because God promised he would be born like Jesus born of Gods Will …..

“For it is written, that Abraham had two sons,

the one by a bondmaid, ( ishmael with Hagar because Sarai said he would have no hier and should make one with her servant )

the other by a freewoman. ( Isaac with Sarah because God promised them he would be born and be Abraham’s hier )

Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants;

the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:22, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

ishmael when Isaac came forth later was cast out of Abraham’s house so that he couldn’t share in Abraham’s inheritance.

That’s part of Paul’s allegory about the old and new covenants like ishmael the old covenant is cast out and the covenant of promise for the children of Abraham father of many nations has come
 

Gideon300

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Mar 18, 2021
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It makes sense. God commanded them not to marry outside of their people. They were only allowed to marry out if the person lived in Israel and only if they converted which probably didn't happen very often. And the rules got even stricter after what happened in the exile to Babylon (Ezra and Nehemiah) even today before you move to Israel you are asked for a blood test to see if you Jewish.
I was not aware of that. Thanks.
 

Gideon300

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Mar 18, 2021
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Frankston, Victoria
christianlife.au
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek,
there is neither bond nor free,
there is neither male nor female:
for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

The Holy Ghost instructed
me to ask you this question:

Are you a women, Jew?
I suppose Christians cannot have children because they are neither male not female. That's a bit rough. I don't know which ghost you listen to, but it doesn't seem too holy to me.
 

Daisy2

Active member
Jan 31, 2025
259
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@Gideon300,

sorry that last part isn't true. DNA was only used after the war because of lack of documentation usually (genealogical records and rabbinical letters) are used for immigration. Today only in rare cases is DNA test required.

Yes, God did command the Israelites to maintain genealogical records. This was especially important for:

  • Inheritance rights
  • Marital eligibility
  • Service in the Temple (for priests and Levites)
Maintaining genealogies was a key requirement in the Torah (see Numbers, Ezra, and Nehemiah), and intermarriage with other peoples was forbidden unless specific conditions were met. Genealogical records were used to confirm tribal affiliation, particularly for the priestly (Kohen) and Levite tribes, as their roles and privileges depended on documented lineage.


These records were meticulously maintained and passed down, sometimes recorded in family books called Sefer Yuchsin (Book of Lineage). The importance of genealogy is also reflected in the many biblical genealogies (the "toledot" or generations) and the detailed lists found in books like Chronicles.
 
Nov 3, 2024
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@Gideon300,

sorry that last part isn't true. DNA was only used after the war because of lack of documentation usually (genealogical records and rabbinical letters) are used for immigration. Today only in rare cases is DNA test required.

Yes, God did command the Israelites to maintain genealogical records. This was especially important for:

  • Inheritance rights
  • Marital eligibility
  • Service in the Temple (for priests and Levites)
Maintaining genealogies was a key requirement in the Torah (see Numbers, Ezra, and Nehemiah), and intermarriage with other peoples was forbidden unless specific conditions were met. Genealogical records were used to confirm tribal affiliation, particularly for the priestly (Kohen) and Levite tribes, as their roles and privileges depended on documented lineage.


These records were meticulously maintained and passed down, sometimes recorded in family books called Sefer Yuchsin (Book of Lineage). The importance of genealogy is also reflected in the many biblical genealogies (the "toledot" or generations) and the detailed lists found in books like Chronicles.
Shalom shalom daisy 2
 
Nov 3, 2024
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Until you understand some of the customs and traditions of the Jewish people you will not fully understand the contents of the gospel let alone the old testament.
Now I'm not saying the gospel message which is loud and clear but the story behind it.
The church is just coming around to that truth.
There are many things happening right now in Israel that are prophetic and certainly critical in understanding the times we are living in.
Written prophecy some that are using the very words expressed by the prophets are coming to pass.
Words that are used in agreements, expressions, ect.
Israel has one of the most complicated laws and government that I've ever seen. And is the only democracy in the middle east.
What you don't know about Israel will shock you. Did you know That jews are not welcome in certain parts of Israel? There own state.
That they were just this week allowed on the temple mount. I follow many christian ministry org that are right there in Israel living among the many different minorities that live and work in Israel.
A friend of mine lived and studied in Israel's university who is Jewish and is with great patients teaching me Hebrew and also certain observance.
No I'm not of the Hebrew roots movement or anything like it I'm a born again believer and my friend is not a Jesus believer (at least not yet but working on it.) 😅
I say all of this not to toot my own horn but to tell you in all sincerity the Bible has come alive right before your eyes in a very short amount of time. Stop listening to the lies the nay sayers the professional opinion people. God is moving and he desires to leave no one behind.
 
Jun 3, 2025
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Until you understand some of the customs and traditions of the Jewish people you will not fully understand the contents of the gospel let alone the old testament.
Now I'm not saying the gospel message which is loud and clear but the story behind it.
The church is just coming around to that truth.
There are many things happening right now in Israel that are prophetic and certainly critical in understanding the times we are living in.
Written prophecy some that are using the very words expressed by the prophets are coming to pass.
Words that are used in agreements, expressions, ect.
Israel has one of the most complicated laws and government that I've ever seen. And is the only democracy in the middle east.
What you don't know about Israel will shock you. Did you know That jews are not welcome in certain parts of Israel? There own state.
That they were just this week allowed on the temple mount. I follow many christian ministry org that are right there in Israel living among the many different minorities that live and work in Israel.
A friend of mine lived and studied in Israel's university who is Jewish and is with great patients teaching me Hebrew and also certain observance.
No I'm not of the Hebrew roots movement or anything like it I'm a born again believer and my friend is not a Jesus believer (at least not yet but working on it.) 😅
I say all of this not to toot my own horn but to tell you in all sincerity the Bible has come alive right before your eyes in a very short amount of time. Stop listening to the lies the nay sayers the professional opinion people. God is moving and he desires to leave no one behind.
The Jews that have rejected Jesus are the anti-Christ.
Israel is a anti-Christ nation.
That is why Jesus took the Kingdom of God away from them
and gave it to another nation.
 
Nov 1, 2024
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I say all of this not to toot my own horn but to tell you in all sincerity the Bible has come alive right before your eyes in a very short amount of time. Stop listening to the lies the nay sayers the professional opinion people. God is moving and he desires to leave no one behind.
If someone doesn't believe what you believe, how would they be left behind?
 
Nov 1, 2024
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It seems as if Abrahams children …..are the ones God has chosen to call his children only he isn’t identifying them by thoer flesh and bloodline but he’s identifyong every person by the body and blood of Jesus. Whether they partake in him or not makes them Abraham’s children and the hiers of Gods promises or not. Rather than if my ancestors were israelite or not really “ Israel “ are jacobs children Jacob was renamed “ Israel “ and then his children were called the children of Israel aBrahmans true children of promise are from all nations.
The firstborn inherited everything from the father. Christ is the firstborn son of God who, as a son of man, inherited all of the promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Believers in him are called the assemply of the firstborn, ie Christ. He inherited all things and died, so now those born of his spirit become heirs of the promises through him who lives forever.

As an example, Ehpraim was the firstborn who inherited the promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The other tribes did not inherit the promises, but they enjoyed allotments of Ephraim's inheritance through their association with him. That is why Israel said this when the kingdom split apart:

So when all Israel saw that the king hearkened not unto them, the people answered the king, saying, What portion have we in David? neither [have we] inheritance in the son of Jesse: to your tents, O Israel: now see to thine own house, David. So Israel departed unto their tents. 1 Kings 12:16
And why Ezekiel described Israel as Ephraim and his associates

Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which [is] in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his associates, and will put them with him, [even] with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. Ezekiel 37:19
So all of this points to the fact that we receive an allotment of the inheritance through our association through faith with the firstborn son of God who inherited everything. This is what I call the genealogy of faith.
 
Mar 15, 2023
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There are some who doubt the role of Israel in God's plan and purpose. If that is so, perhaps you can explain this from the book of Revelation.
Revelation 7:3-8
“Do not harm the land or sea or trees until we have placed a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”

And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel:

From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000, from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000, from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000, from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, and from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

Also Romans 11: 25 & 26.
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion; He will remove godlessness from Jacob.

These things are obviously future. God is not done with Israel yet.

It is noteworthy that the tribe of Dan is not included in the 144,000. God rejected Dan because they allied themselves with the Philistines instead of conquering them as God had commanded. That compromise caused great trouble for Israel later on. We do well not to compromise with God's enemies.



Completely wrong no matter how you try and look at it, the evidence doesn’t fit, unless you don’t believe in the NT


Numerous issues with your interpretation of this, too long to go in to detail of each issue, so I’ll try to explain in short from a different angel (albeit it is not that short)


1) 144,000 is actually not a lot of people and arguably excludes Christians

2) Arguably, this is Figuratively speaking and causes a lot of conflict with other passages if taken literal.

3) It also has to be related to those at the time of Jacob and his sons (12 tribes) or at the time of Jesus as he was - Matt 15:24 But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

4)Also, they have to be virgins - Rev 14:4

4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.

5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.



(This would then exclude people such as David, Lot, Judah so on)

(Yet Judah is named first for some reason.)


5) Another problem is not all the 12 tribes are mentioned and some are mentioned that were not the 12, albeit many have different explanations for this.


i) tribes of Joseph - Manasseh and Ephraim are mentioned

ii) Dan not mentioned, yet - Genesis 49:16 "Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel."


6) there seems to be a misrepresentation of the OT in Romans 11:26 “The Deliverer will come from Zion; He will remove godlessness from Jacob. – which actually makes a considerable difference


Isaiah 59:20-21: “The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,” declares the LORD.


Jesus the new covenant / way / promise


7) Gal 6:15-16 – 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

(Spiritual Israel for all races, new people of God, free from bondage)

8) Romans 2:26 –29

26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
28 - For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;

29 - but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

9) Matt 3:9 - and do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.

10 And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

11) John 8:31 31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.
39 “If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do what Abraham did.

44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

12) Revelation 3:9 9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

13) Romans 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
(Paul is talking about Genesis 12 – not all counted as seeds, the children of flesh are not the children of God)


14) John 3:18 - “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

(only those that believe in Jesus – no one else)

15) Romans 11:4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”

17 - And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.



16) Exodus 19:5 Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine;

(only if they keep the covenant – which they did not do)


17) Jeremiah 11:10 They have turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers who refused to hear My words, and they have gone after other gods to serve them; the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken My covenant which I made with their fathers.”

18) Jeremiah 31:31 - “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—


19) John 2:19-21 – 21 But He was speaking about the temple of His body.

(Jesus is the new temple – no third physical temple)

20) 1 Peter 2:9 - But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

10 - who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.


21) Rev 1:6 - and He made us into a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

22) Rev 5:10 - And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.”


23) Romans 6:10 - For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

24) Hebrew 10:10 - 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


(New chosen, New Israel, the true Jews, those who believe in Jesus only, the new covenant)
 
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The so-called Jews of Today and Israel

Finally, as to the present state of Israel and those that claim to be descendent of Abraham and the so-called promised people.

25) Genesis 12:3 – I bless those who bless you (Abraham)

(there was no Jew or a particular religion, it was those who followed Abraham a man chosen by God to give a message)

26) Jacob is Israel – it was not a race / religion / county / group and the 12 sons were the 12 tribes of the Israelites – there was never a country or even Judaism or Jew – all this cam much later – from traditions and being named after Judah


Abraham was not a Jew nor was any of those that came later Jews – at best there were the tribes of Israelites.

There was no Torah or Talmud that came much much later – Rabbi writings – not inspired words.

The present-day Jews of the country of Israel are mostly genocidal, atheist, secularist with the largest gay pride events in the world. They to not follow the Torah, they do follow the Talmud.

The Israelis are the decedents of the Khazars who converted to Judaism in 8 or 9 century – they never followed the Torah and only learnt from the Talmud.

Most are originally from eastern Europe and mainly from parts of what now Russia – travelled to European countries - basically become the European colonists, hence they are racists.

Ashkenazi are from the Khazar migrants – and the name originate from the Rhineland region of Germany 8-9 century.

The Khazars and Ashkenazi Jews have no connection / lineage to the descendants of Abraham / Jacob etc... and other biblical figures and now make up approx. 90% of the Jews worldwide.

Hence Israel has banned DNA – and authority has to be granted for DNA.



Jesus is the new covenant, temple and saviour – you cannot be saved unless you believe in Jesus – the Jews of today do not believe in Jesus.


They present day Jews believe in (Talmud);

Gittin 57a. Says Jesus is being boiled in "hot excrement."

A passage from Sanhedrin 106 gloats over the early age at which Jesus died: "Hast thou heard how old Balaam (Jesus) was? - He replied: It is not actually stated but since it is written, Bloody and deceitful men shall not live out half their days it follows that he was thirty-three or thirty-four years old."

Sanhedrin 43a. Says Jesus ("Yeshu" and in footnote #6, Yeshu "the Nazarene") was executed because he practiced sorcery.


There are sufficient passages provided above to show that only Jeus is the way and life.


Christian Zionism is Blasphemy of the New Testament.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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The so-called Jews of Today and Israel

Finally, as to the present state of Israel and those that claim to be descendent of Abraham and the so-called promised people.

25) Genesis 12:3 – I bless those who bless you (Abraham)

(there was no Jew or a particular religion, it was those who followed Abraham a man chosen by God to give a message)

26) Jacob is Israel – it was not a race / religion / county / group and the 12 sons were the 12 tribes of the Israelites – there was never a country or even Judaism or Jew – all this cam much later – from traditions and being named after Judah


Abraham was not a Jew nor was any of those that came later Jews – at best there were the tribes of Israelites.

There was no Torah or Talmud that came much much later – Rabbi writings – not inspired words.

The present-day Jews of the country of Israel are mostly genocidal, atheist, secularist with the largest gay pride events in the world. They to not follow the Torah, they do follow the Talmud.

The Israelis are the decedents of the Khazars who converted to Judaism in 8 or 9 century – they never followed the Torah and only learnt from the Talmud.

Most are originally from eastern Europe and mainly from parts of what now Russia – travelled to European countries - basically become the European colonists, hence they are racists.

Ashkenazi are from the Khazar migrants – and the name originate from the Rhineland region of Germany 8-9 century.

The Khazars and Ashkenazi Jews have no connection / lineage to the descendants of Abraham / Jacob etc... and other biblical figures and now make up approx. 90% of the Jews worldwide.

Hence Israel has banned DNA – and authority has to be granted for DNA.



Jesus is the new covenant, temple and saviour – you cannot be saved unless you believe in Jesus – the Jews of today do not believe in Jesus.


They present day Jews believe in (Talmud);

Gittin 57a. Says Jesus is being boiled in "hot excrement."

A passage from Sanhedrin 106 gloats over the early age at which Jesus died: "Hast thou heard how old Balaam (Jesus) was? - He replied: It is not actually stated but since it is written, Bloody and deceitful men shall not live out half their days it follows that he was thirty-three or thirty-four years old."

Sanhedrin 43a. Says Jesus ("Yeshu" and in footnote #6, Yeshu "the Nazarene") was executed because he practiced sorcery.


There are sufficient passages provided above to show that only Jeus is the way and life.


Christian Zionism is Blasphemy of the New Testament.

Amen, missed you!
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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The Jews that have rejected Jesus are the anti-Christ.
Israel is a anti-Christ nation.
That is why Jesus took the Kingdom of God away from them
and gave it to another nation.
Amen.
Dispensationalism is dying, praise God!

The nation is those who "believe" as it always was.
 
Nov 1, 2024
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6) there seems to be a misrepresentation of the OT in Romans 11:26 “The Deliverer will come from Zion; He will remove godlessness from Jacob. – which actually makes a considerable difference


Isaiah 59:20-21: “The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,” declares the LORD.
Paul apparently was quoting from the LXX which indicates coming from Zion.
 

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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So sad that some want to make it about the flesh again. As Paul so soundly defeated the requirement for circumcision of believers in the New Testament, these modern day Judaisers haven't dared to try that argument again. Instead, they make it about the lineage of one from "true" physical Jews - although, of course, since 70AD, no one claiming to be Jewish has been able to verify his Jewish ancestry with the necessary temple records.
That is exactly what that dipsey doctrine does.... make it about the flesh again.
 

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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You red xd my post. And you've been quite hostile about disagreeing with people, myself included. Then you indicated my comment was better meant for him, and it wasn't. I meant it for you. So perhaps you need to listen better to what people are saying, and even your own words - before you say them?
The ire/emotion that is raised in people is very worrisome.

When will this mass indoctrination end, I pray soon.