Israel.
- Thread starter Gideon300
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
"I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them,” says the LORD your God (Amos 9:15).
God Bless
But scripture also says IF....IF they are obedient. And like Paul says, "IF they repent from unbelief".
If they repent, the Almighty is faithful to forgive.
Conditional clause. So the question is, do the people currently in the land meet those conditions (obedient to the commands of Yah and faithful to Messiah)? If the answer is yes then they are Israel. If the answer is no, then they aren't Israel.
One doesn't get the reward without doing the work. If they claim the land without doing what the Almighty requires of them then it is theft.
D
Daisy2
Guest
There are several places in the Bible where God told the Jews not to marry outside of the Israelites
Deuteronomy 7:3–4 (KJV)
"Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the Lord be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly."
And also passages of consequences when it did happen. Ezra 10:18–44 Then there's King Solomon married whoever he wanted and his wives brought idols into the household.
1 Kings 11:1–2, 4
"But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites; Of the nations concerning which the Lord said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love. For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God, as was the heart of David his father."
It wasn't just the Samaritans even the children of Lot and his descendants and by Ishmael and Esau’s descendants—none of them are considered Israelites.
Genesis 19:36–38
"Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father. And the first born bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day. And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day."
Genesis 25:12–18
"Now these are the generations of Ishmael, Abraham’s son, whom Hagar the Egyptian, Sarah’s handmaid, bare unto Abraham... And they dwelt from Havilah unto Shur, that is before Egypt, as thou goest toward Assyria: and he died in the presence of all his brethren."
Genesis 36:1
"Now these are the generations of Esau, who is Edom."
Deuteronomy 23:3
"An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the Lord for ever."
Though Ruth married in, perhaps like today where they have to convert to be considered Jewish, and others like rehab
Ruth 1:16
"And Ruth said, Intreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God."
“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” Galatians 3:28–29
“And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.”
Romans 11:17–18 By faith we are grafted in
Deuteronomy 7:3–4 (KJV)
"Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the Lord be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly."
And also passages of consequences when it did happen. Ezra 10:18–44 Then there's King Solomon married whoever he wanted and his wives brought idols into the household.
1 Kings 11:1–2, 4
"But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites; Of the nations concerning which the Lord said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love. For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God, as was the heart of David his father."
It wasn't just the Samaritans even the children of Lot and his descendants and by Ishmael and Esau’s descendants—none of them are considered Israelites.
Genesis 19:36–38
"Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father. And the first born bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day. And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day."
Genesis 25:12–18
"Now these are the generations of Ishmael, Abraham’s son, whom Hagar the Egyptian, Sarah’s handmaid, bare unto Abraham... And they dwelt from Havilah unto Shur, that is before Egypt, as thou goest toward Assyria: and he died in the presence of all his brethren."
Genesis 36:1
"Now these are the generations of Esau, who is Edom."
Deuteronomy 23:3
"An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the Lord for ever."
Though Ruth married in, perhaps like today where they have to convert to be considered Jewish, and others like rehab
Ruth 1:16
"And Ruth said, Intreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God."
“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” Galatians 3:28–29
“And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.”
Romans 11:17–18 By faith we are grafted in
"I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them,” says the LORD your God (Amos 9:15).
God Bless
That is a prophecy that James, the brother of Jesus and leader of the Jerusalem church, said in Acts 15:15 was being fulfilled at that time; the tabernacle of David had already begun to be built. Obviously, that is a process that at this point in time has lasted about 2000 years and will reach its completion and fullness at the lord's return.
But the context of those words shows that the subject is not a physical building:
“13 And after they had become silent, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me: 14 “Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. 15 “And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written: 16 ‘After this I will return And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins, And I will set it up; 17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the LORD, Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, Says the LORD who does all these things.’” (Ac 15:13-17 NKJV)
I agree with John Gill:
"David's tabernacle was to be rebuilt, and his kingdom to be restored by the Messiah, but in a spiritual way; for the tabernacle of David designs the spiritual kingdom or church of Christ, who is here called David, as in Eze 34:23,24, 37:24,25 Ho 3:5 and of whom David was an eminent type: and the church may be called a tabernacle, being in the present state of things, as to its place, uncertain and moveable, though ere long it will be a tabernacle that will not be taken down,"
Where in scripture is that not the case? In other words, when the prophets wrote about the rebuilding of the everlasting temple, which some call the 3rd temple, where is it mandated that it will be a worldly temple made with natural materials?
Sorry, I obviously misunderstood your previous post. I thought you were saying that it would be a physical building. I apologise.
D
Daisy2
Guest
The devil hates the Israelites/Jews; otherwise, there wouldn’t have been a Holocaust or so much antisemitism. It’s also evident that God still cares for them. I’ve never seen anyone get so bent out of shape talking about any other people/topic. Even when I was a kid, people hated the Jews—protruding their heads forward, showing their stiff necks in hatred for them. It’s obvious this is a demonic influence.
Regardless, If the Israelites follow the covenant or not this doesn’t mean that the land can be inherited by anyone but the Israelites. God doesn’t change. The land was promised to them alone.
And it is good that we aren’t held to such a high standard, for we are but Gentiles. We are justified by faith and saved by grace.
Hello. In the verse in question there doesn't seem to be an 'If'. God is going to bring them back, before they turn back to him. And they won't be uprooted.
"I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them,” says the LORD your God (Amos 9:15).
What you're saying might have held water with some before 1948, but there's a hippo in the room now. God Bless You
It never really mattered that the devil or others had ill intentions for Israel as long as they were obedient and faithful to the Almighty, because in so being, they were absolutely untouchable, as scripture details; completely protected under His wing. The only time(s) they were exposed to harm were when they were no longer obedient and faithful to the Almighty.
The Almighty isn't a liar and isn't a bad parent. He disciplines, He does not spoil, and He keeps His word. He's not going to give them back the land in disobedience to Him when it was that very same disobedience that led Him to strip the land from them because like you said, "God doesn't change".
Yes, in fact it does...because of the very fact that God doesn't change. He showed us what He would do each time:
When the northern house continued to sin, He took the upper portion of land from them and gave it to the Assyrians. When the southern house continued to sin, He took the lower portion of the land and gave it to the Babylonians. And in His word, He warned that if they continued to sin, then the length of punishment would multiply by 7. So the Babylonian exile turned into the Persian exile, and so on.
Only in the time of Ezra and Nehamia did a portion of Judah repent, so they were allowed to return to the land...but then fast-forward to rejection of the Messiah, and they were removed from the land again, and Jerusalem was destroyed. Yes, the Almighty doesn't change, and this is why the OT is important, so we can understand His ways and not make errors in assumptions or be led astray when newspapers and television announce the fulfillment of prophecy in 1948.
So then that means they are held to a higher standard, right? especially if they don't accept the New Covenant in Messiah? Consider this: if they don't accept the new covenant, then - per Paul's message to the Jews in Galatia - they are under the first covenant and are required to obey ALL the law, including animal sacrifice for the remission of sin. And because there is no temple or tabernacle, their sins are on their heads, which means every last one of them should die right now. Sons of perdition.
They don't get the benefits of grace for their sins without faith in the Messiah.
What some of the members here are doing is far worse than making grace a license to sin; they're making a claimed identity that very license, which flies in the face of all of scripture, including Paul's letter to the Romans.
D
Daisy2
Guest
The USA. I grew up as the daughter of a hairstylist so customers tell you what they really think. And your like wow I didn't know you hated them to that extent but it's happened so many times. We came to the conclusion it's demon inspired hatred.
Hello. In the verse in question there doesn't seem to be an 'If'. God is going to bring them back, before they turn back to him. And they won't be uprooted.
"I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them,” says the LORD your God (Amos 9:15).
What you're saying might have held water with some before 1948, but there's a hippo in the room now. God Bless You
Where!?
...I can't spot it. Oh well. Anyhow, two things:
1) Paul, when he explains the details of the promises made to Israel, says "if" they repent.
2) Let's take the Amos passage you mentioned and weigh the situation we're witnessing against it (because it's scripture, so it's true):
After this latest exchange of attacks between the IDF and the IRGC, hundreds and hundreds of Jewish people fled the land because their homes were destroyed, and they flew elsewhere to other countries. Many of them began purchasing land on the Island of Cyprus, so much so that the Cyprus government began decrying the situation, fearing they're about to experience what the Palestinians have been going through since 1948.
So either the Almighty is a liar when He (through Amos) said "never again to be uprooted from the land,"...or....this and many other passages about the promises to Israel don't apply to these people who currently claim to be Israel.
You are 100% correct, I'd give you a standing ovation if I could! I totally agree.
Indeed it is. To murder over 6 million innocent people is demon inspired hatred. To side with that, to say there was no Holocaust or it wasn't that many people or that bad is also demon inspired hatred.
...I can't spot it. Oh well. Anyhow, two things:
1) Paul, when he explains the details of the promises made to Israel, says "if" they repent.
The "if" is for Gentiles also. So much for OSAS. But that's a horse of another color. Clearly they will repent, the Bible says so.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
So you live in an area where there are no Jewish people, or none that you know.
- Status