Does man have a freewill ?

[GWH]

i have a challenge for those who believe in libertarian free will:

i challenge you to use your will to stop sinning.

report your findings truthfully. and what is your excuse for sinning? why do you keep doing it? stop at once!

Sinners can overcome selfishness only by becoming one with Christ via faith in Him/God as Lord and thereby sharing His goodness because of union with His/God’s Holy Spirit. This spiritual union is denoted by references to those who have saving faith as children of God the Father (Rom. 8:14-16). This is why Christianity is a relationship with God motivated by gratitude for God’s grace (Psa. 100, Eph. 2:4-8) rather than a legalistic religion of working to merit God’s mercy because of fear of punishment.

Again, the evidence of saving faith or satisfying GRFS is working faith, love or helping humanity (John 13:35). Disciples of Jesus (or Believers) tend to love and help others, not by virtue of their own goodness, but because they are moved or motivated by the loving Spirit of the Lord. Christians love everyone by reflecting God’s love (Matt. 5:44 & 48, 1Tim. 2:3-4, Rom. 5:5-8 & 1John 4:7-19).

Humans can never become good enough to earn or merit salvation as a reward for right behavior. A person cannot be good by doing good. Those who try to attain heaven by imitating Christ-like behavior without accepting Christ’s Lordship and atonement do not merely fall short (Rom. 3:23) but actually go in the opposite direction (Gal. 5:4), so we should cooperate with God’s Way.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

And it's still the same.

calvies are here to antagonize His Gospel to us.

armies are here to antagonize His security of us.

Every single thread comes down to these 2 deceptions.......And I read back to the original "EG" threads.

ther sad part.

both sides look through doctrinal glasses. Unable to hear others. falsly accusing them of believing things they do not believe. because they read through the lens of whatever "ism" they follow

An armie hears OSAS. and automatically. your a calvinist. so you believe these things (when probably 80 percent of the stuff they claim we believe we do not)

no different from the calvie, who is probably so busy trying to protect his own doctrine. he sees everything through a calvie eye. and does the same in listening to others. and can not understand when they keep being accused of bearing false witness.

its not just in here either, it is in alot of chatrooms.. Its like the calvin vs arminian thread is the hottest threads in the room.. (Or should I say heated)

what is it about these conversations?

 

[Melach]

Humans can never become good enough to earn or merit salvation as a reward for right behavior. A person cannot be good by doing good. Those who try to attain heaven by imitating Christ-like behavior without accepting Christ’s Lordship and atonement do not merely fall short (Rom. 3:23) but actually go in the opposite direction (Gal. 5:4), so we should cooperate with God’s Way.

oh but what about free will? just decide you wont sin no more.

or do you believe in original sin?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

i have a challenge for those who believe in libertarian free will:

i challenge you to use your will to stop sinning.

report your findings truthfully. and what is your excuse for sinning? why do you keep doing it? stop at once!

in order to do this, we would have to give up our will to do the things to serve self.

 

[Melach]

Humans can never become good enough to earn or merit salvation as a reward for right behavior. A person cannot be good by doing good. Those who try to attain heaven by imitating Christ-like behavior without accepting Christ’s Lordship and atonement do not merely fall short (Rom. 3:23) but actually go in the opposite direction (Gal. 5:4), so we should cooperate with God’s Way.

oh but what about free will? just decide you wont sin no more.

or do you believe in original sin?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

i have a challenge for those who believe in libertarian free will:

i challenge you to use your will to stop sinning.

report your findings truthfully. and what is your excuse for sinning? why do you keep doing it? stop at once!

in order to do this, we would have to give up our will to do the things to serve self.

 

[Mem]

Yes, it all happened during the huge Calvin debate when so many people got banned. as you know I was so frustrated I left the chat, after a few months I cam back under this nic.

EG was my original nic. I made a new one that matched close.

I didn't miss that you'd left. And you' might have to read that sentence again to be sure I mean to say that I noticed your absence. (And also, I wondered at your return after taking advantage of the freedom to step away and return with a 'new' mind. It's would seem expected that we continual do such even on a more micro-level as a daily experience within the context of continuation in sanctification. So, I don't why all the pressing about it even as you have expressed your alarm for concern of the presence of gaslighting but, let me offer you the 'best light' by which to look at the issue at your heart. Cameron's failure.....haaa... if I may indulge in me a minute to dwell on that.... yes, I think he would agree that he is a failure. (Idk why that's funny! It's so funny tho) but only with the qualification specifically in regard to a failure to communicate his thought thoroughly understood, given that such possibility actually present itself in the process of transmitting and receiving spiritual messages.


But nobody wants to see any event of such spectacle as a public humiliation, do they?
Haaa! That was a rhetorical question.

Disclaimer: No automatons have been harmed in the creation of this writing.

 

[Mem]

needful ^edit. I wrote "sanctification" but was thinking to say "regeneration" then a rabbit trail distracted me and when I came back, I forgot the word I had until just now.

anyway...

Happy New Day!@erbody

 

[GWH]

oh but what about free will? just decide you wont sin no more.

or do you believe in original sin?

I believe the TOP re salvation/election (s/e), including the following:

1. Romans 1:16 says the Gospel reveals that (s/e) is for “everyone who believes”, both Jew and Gentile.

2. Romans 1:17 describes s/e as “righteousness from God” that is by faith “from first to last” or from creation until the end.

3. Romans 2:4 teaches that God’s kindness or patience with sinners is meant to lead them toward repentance, which implies that sinners are able to repent because of God’s leading.

4. Romans 2:5 warns that those who do not repent but instead stubbornly resist God’s leading are storing up wrath against themselves for the day when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed, which implies that God enables sinners to repent–or not (cf. Deut. 30:19).

I believe A&E committed the original sin, which is related to the following:

15. Romans 3:25b further explains that God demonstrated his just patience (#3) or forbearance in leaving unpunished those sins committed before the revealing of the Gospel (foreshadowed in Gen. 22:8 & 13), implying that sinners had/have the opportunity to believe and be s/e thereby demonstrating God’s justice/not showing favoritism (#11).

20. Romans 5:6-10 states that God’s love (cf. kindness in #3) for the ungodly, for sinners and for His enemies is demonstrated by Christ dying for their s/e or justification/reconciliation.

21. Romans 5:12-21 describes s/e in corporate terms, saying that–like the first man–all (many?) men also sinned and died, and God’s grace comes to all (many?) because of Jesus Christ.

 

[Magenta]

what is it about these conversations?

It is about the ignorance of the free willer who refuses to admit that the inability of man is not solely taught in Calvinism.

They are as much in need of God's grace to understand and accept spiritual truths as the natural man.

Since they routinely reject, contradict, and outright deny a plethora of Scriptural truths.

 

[lrs68]

i have a challenge for those who believe in libertarian free will:

i challenge you to use your will to stop sinning.

report your findings truthfully. and what is your excuse for sinning? why do you keep doing it? stop at once!

I will say this and I believe ALL MEMBERS of this forum can say and admit to the same thing. Many sins we know about in advance and can stop from doing them. Like Gossip. We know the thoughts in our mind and have the power to be quiet or still say what doesn't need to be said. There's other sins that before committed we have thoughts about and could easily not do but we CHOOSE to do them anyway.

Then there's those sins that are reactive and catch us off guard and by surprise like while driving and someone in another vehicle makes an unwise decision and we just immediately react without thinking.

But for the most part we actually have a lot of control to stop or continue sin.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It is about the ignorance of the free willer who refuses to admit that the inability of man is not solely taught in Calvinism.

And here we go again, Attack Attack. Its never your fault.
I am not ignorant my sweet sister. You can claim I am, you can do whatever you want. But I am not ignorant.

It is reformed doctrone, Most call it calvinism. but it has a mind of its own. Many call it fatalism, that everything is predetermined. and in effect. man has no say in the matter, They are going to do Gods will not matter what.

They are as much in need of God's grace to understand and accept spiritual truths as the natural man.

I understand gods truth thank you.. I accept spiritual truth. It may not agree with what you think is truth. But I accept it..

Since they routinely reject, contradict, and outright deny a plethora of Scriptural truths.

this goes both ways.

both parties are guilt 0of this. of course no one is 100 % perfect in all of their doctrines.. Only Jesus was..

 

[Komentaja]

both parties are guilt 0of this. of course no one is 100 % perfect in all of their doctrines.. Only Jesus was..

That is why this debate is such a waste of time. The Bible teaches predestination, but we don't have to know how it all works out. What benefit is there in knowing the inner workings of God, other than to fuel our curiosity and to have something to debate about?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Daniel 4:34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

Right. Your previous statement was wrong. Understanding came before praise.

Here is what God tells us in Daniel 4:

Daniel 4:

34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:


Here is what I said, Cameron143:

Your proof text relates to Nebuchadnezzar, his dream, his wandering as a madman, his healing after he acknowledged the God of Daniel.​

To Whom was Nebuchadnezzar looking when he "lifted up [his] eyes unto heaven" ?

When Nebuchadnezzar "lifted up [his] eyes unto heaven", his "understanding returned unto [him]" and he "blessed the most High" and he "praised and honoured Him that liveth forever" and Whose "dominion is an everlasting dominion" and His "kingdom is from generation to generation".

Please re-read Post 511 and tell me where I ever indicated praise came before understanding. Thank you.
.

 

[Cameron143]

Here is what God tells us in Daniel 4:

Daniel 4:

34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:


Here is what I said, Cameron143:

Your proof text relates to Nebuchadnezzar, his dream, his wandering as a madman, his healing after he acknowledged the God of Daniel.​

To Whom was Nebuchadnezzar looking when he "lifted up [his] eyes unto heaven" ?

When Nebuchadnezzar "lifted up [his] eyes unto heaven", his "understanding returned unto [him]" and he "blessed the most High" and he "praised and honoured Him that liveth forever" and Whose "dominion is an everlasting dominion" and His "kingdom is from generation to generation".

Please re-read Post 511 and tell me where I ever indicated praise came before understanding. Thank you.
.

How can he acknowledge God before his understanding returned?

 

[Magenta]

Romans 3 verses 11-12; Romans 8 verses 5-8; 2 Timothy 2 verses 25-26 There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

 

[Magenta]

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." John 6:44 The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:14 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8:7-8

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

That is why this debate is such a waste of time. The Bible teaches predestination, but we don't have to know how it all works out. What benefit is there in knowing the inner workings of God, other than to fuel our curiosity and to have something to debate about?

A lot of things we will not know true scope until we see him face to face until then we all have our beliefs.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

How can he acknowledge God before his understanding returned?

Cameron143 ... read the verse again ...

Daniel 4:34 And at the end of the days ...

I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, ...

and mine understanding returned unto me, ...

and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation


To Whom was Nebuchadnezzar looking when he "lifted up [his] eyes unto heaven" ?

When Nebuchadnezzar "lifted up [his] eyes unto heaven", his "understanding returned unto [him]" and he "blessed the most High" and he "praised and honoured Him that liveth forever" and Whose "dominion is an everlasting dominion" and His "kingdom is from generation to generation".
.

 

[Cameron143]

Cameron143 ... read the verse again ...

Daniel 4:34 And at the end of the days ...

I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, ...

and mine understanding returned unto me, ...

and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation


To Whom was Nebuchadnezzar looking when he "lifted up [his] eyes unto heaven" ?

When Nebuchadnezzar "lifted up [his] eyes unto heaven", his "understanding returned unto [him]" and he "blessed the most High" and he "praised and honoured Him that liveth forever" and Whose "dominion is an everlasting dominion" and His "kingdom is from generation to generation".
.

You can repeat the verse as often as you like, without any understanding, how does one acknowledge God?