Does man have a freewill ?

[Rosemaryx]

And here I had respect for you,


Once again, I am not discussing doctrine. I am discussing being falsely accused.

Discernment in this chatroom is at an all time low

I am done. It is evident than people are not going to admit wrong. so I can not respect them. so moving on

@Everlasting-Grace ...
Can you answer @Magenta question...I believe it is important...
It doesn't look like anything has changed except your name.

 

[Rosemaryx]

And here I had respect for you,


Once again, I am not discussing doctrine. I am discussing being falsely accused.

Discernment in this chatroom is at an all time low

I am done. It is evident than people are not going to admit wrong. so I can not respect them. so moving on

@Everlasting-Grace ...
Can you answer @Magenta question...I believe it is important...
It doesn't look like anything has changed except your name.

 

[GWH]

The unregenerate is a servant of sin, a slave to sin. Even the regenerate sometimes comes under the captivity of sin and serve it, so its 100 times fold true of the unregenerate. Paul as a regenerated person with a godly nature wrote Rom 7:14-25

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Now does this sound like he freewill ? He wrote, with the flesh he serves the law of sin. Now thats a spiritual man speaking, so just think if he was only in the flesh as the ones depicted in Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

No, they cannot serve God, or please God in any shape or form, they are sold 100% under the power of sin

25. In Romans 7:7-25 Paul describes s/e in terms of struggle between what a person’s conscience wants to do and what his sinful nature causes him to do until he is rescued by Christ.

Cited out of context this may not sound like a sinner has volition, but the context (including #23, 3 & 4 cited below)
indicates that sinners are able to seek God's leading--or resist:

23. Romans 6:15-23 describes s/e in terms of being slaves to whom one willingly obeys, whether to sin or to obedience of God’s teaching that leads to righteousness, which results in eternal life “in Christ Jesus our Lord” (cf. #10).

3. Romans 2:4 teaches that God’s kindness or patience with sinners is meant to lead them toward repentance, which implies that sinners are able to repent because of God’s leading.

4. Romans 2:5 warns that those who do not repent but instead stubbornly resist God’s leading are storing up wrath against themselves for the day when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed, which implies that God enables sinners to repent–or not (cf. Deut. 30:19).

Pray you will be freed from TULIP brain-washing.
LIC, GWH

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

@Everlasting-Grace ...
Can you answer @Magenta question...I believe it is important...
It doesn't look like anything has changed except your name.

what question did she ask? I did not read her whole post. the first few lines were enough for me..

A person made a comment.

I questioned their comment

The person then claimed he did not make that comment

Instead of admitting that he made a mistake and he should have maybe worded it different. he kept accusing me, and refusing to admit he made a mistake.

and it seems I am the one taking heat.

if a person can not humble them selves to admit they made an error. how can we listen to anything they say.

he said God does not use people to draw. then he as much admitted God does use people to draw..

I agree. I can not draw anyone to God. But God can use me to help draw them to God through his power.

thats where the whole argument falls

either he can use them, or he can not

He said God can't

then showed how God uses them.

 

[GWH]

what question did she ask? I did not read her whole post. the first few lines were enough for me..

A person made a comment.

I questioned their comment

The person then claimed he did not make that comment

Instead of admitting that he made a mistake and he should have maybe worded it different. he kept accusing me, and refusing to admit he made a mistake.

and it seems I am the one taking heat.

if a person can not humble them selves to admit they made an error. how can we listen to anything they say.

he said God does not use people to draw. then he as much admitted God does use people to draw..

I agree. I can not draw anyone to God. But God can use me to help draw them to God through his power.

thats where the whole argument falls

either he can use them, or he can not

He said God can't then showed how God uses them.

Such illogic and inadmission are symptoms of being brain-washed,
which limits discussion to playing verbal ping-pong.

 

[Rosemaryx]

what question did she ask? I did not read her whole post. the first few lines were enough for me..

A person made a comment.

I questioned their comment

The person then claimed he did not make that comment

Instead of admitting that he made a mistake and he should have maybe worded it different. he kept accusing me, and refusing to admit he made a mistake.

and it seems I am the one taking heat.

if a person can not humble them selves to admit they made an error. how can we listen to anything they say.

he said God does not use people to draw. then he as much admitted God does use people to draw..

I agree. I can not draw anyone to God. But God can use me to help draw them to God through his power.

thats where the whole argument falls

either he can use them, or he can not

He said God can't

then showed how God uses them.

@Everlasting-Grace ...
@Magenta asked if you were a member before under a different name...But you said you did not read all her post so I guess you missed that part...I think it is wise to confirm this as obviously she has an incline that you have been here before under a different name...Letting her know would be the right thing to do or else she will carry on thinking so...

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

@Everlasting-Grace ...
@Magenta asked if you were a member before under a different name...But you said you did not read all her post so I guess you missed that part...I think it is wise to confirm this as obviously she has an incline that you have been here before under a different name...Letting her know would be the right thing to do or else she will carry on thinking so...

Yes, it all happened during the huge Calvin debate when so many people got banned. as you know I was so frustrated I left the chat, after a few months I cam back under this nic.

EG was my original nic. I made a new one that matched close.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

mans freewill in the matter of salvation especially is actually a denial of the Gospel of Gods Grace. A few reasons why I say that. It denies that God is God. It promotes the false concept that God cant do what He wants with man in salvation unless man allows Him to

I don't know exactly what you and others mean by "freewill".

The term "freewill" and/or "freewillers" should be clarified so we all know what is meant by the term (or at least I know what is meant by the term ... don't mean to imply that others are as ignorant as I am concerning "freewill" and/or "freewillers").

I believe God always makes the first move and mankind responds to God having done so. In responding to God:

some do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness and God brings increase.

some suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:20), remain unsaved, and receive the consequence of having done so.


I do not believe this is equal to:

"a denial of the Gospel" … or that it "promotes the false concept” that "God cant do what He wants with man in salvation".

I believe what I stated above comports with what God has declared in His Word:

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

When the gospel of Christ is revealed to a person and he or she believes, because the gospel is so powerful that person is saved ... the just shall live by faith.

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

When the gospel of Christ is revealed to a person and he or she suppresses the truth in unrighteousness, he or she reaps the consequence of having suppressed the truth ... he or she is without excuse.
.

 

[Kroogz]

Yes, it all happened during the huge Calvin debate when so many people got banned. as you know I was so frustrated I left the chat, after a few months I cam back under this nic.

EG was my original nic. I made a new one that matched close.

And it's still the same.

calvies are here to antagonize His Gospel to us.

armies are here to antagonize His security of us.

Every single thread comes down to these 2 deceptions.......And I read back to the original "EG" threads.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Yet the God of scripture is described here Ps 115:3

But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

This verse is not a standalone verse to ascribe whatever meaning we may or may not want.

Psalm 115:

1 Not unto us, O LORD, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth's sake.

All glory and honor belongs to God ... not to man.


2 Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God?

3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

The gentiles had many idols and graven images. The Israelites did not. The heathens say "where is their God?" because there were no (or there shouldn't have been) any idols or graven images that could be seen.

The Israelites trusted in God Who is not visible.


4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.

5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:

6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:

7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.

8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.

Vss 4-8 describe the idols worshipped by the heathen.

Ps 135:6

6 Whatsoever the Lord pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places.

Psalm 135 extols God ...

vss 5-7 speak of God's creation which is wonderful to behold ... and indeed God was pleased with His creation as noted in Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Eph 1:4-5,11

More ripping of verses from the context within which God has placed the verses:

Ephesians 1:

1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

All spiritual blessings ... all holiness and blamelessness ... all predetermination ... all redemption ... all forgiveness ... all grace ... all inheritance ... God has purposed that ALL is encompassed in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Before the foundation of the world, God predetermined that those who are faithful in the Lord Jesus Christ would be blessed with all spiritual blessings.

Those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness will not partake of spiritual blessings. Those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness reject God's goodness and grace and they suffer the consequence of their actions.

In the dispensation of the fulness of times, all believers will be gathered together to partake of the inheritance in the Lord Jesus Christ ...

God has purposed that those who trust in the Lord Jesus Christ in this lifetime will receive an inheritance ... Romans 8:17 tells us we are joint-heirs with the Lord Jesus Christ.

Are you faithful in the Lord Jesus Christ???

Dan 4:34-35

34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Another example of you ripping a verse out of the context within which God has set the verse.


Nebuchadnezzar had a dream:

Daniel 4:

4 I Nebuchadnezzar was at rest in mine house, and flourishing in my palace:

5 I saw a dream which made me afraid, and the thoughts upon my bed and the visions of my head troubled me.


Daniel interpreted the dream:

Daniel 4:

24 This is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree of the most High, which is come upon my lord the king:

25 That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

26 And whereas they commanded to leave the stump of the tree roots; thy kingdom shall be sure unto thee, after that thou shalt have known that the heavens do rule.

27 Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity.


Nebuchadnezzar did not break off his sins and iniquities. He did not show mercy to the poor. He claimed in vs 30 that he had built the kingdom by his power for the honor of his majesty. So the dream was fulfilled and at the end of the appointed time, Nebuchadnezzar claimed the words you submitted as your proof text:

Daniel 4:

34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?


Your proof text relates to Nebuchadnezzar, his dream, his wandering as a madman, his healing after he acknowledged the God of Daniel. When Nebuchadnezzar did that:

Daniel 4:

36 At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.

37 Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.
.

 

[Cameron143]

More ripping of verses from the context within which God has placed the verses:

Ephesians 1:

1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

All spiritual blessings ... all holiness and blamelessness ... all predetermination ... all redemption ... all forgiveness ... all grace ... all inheritance ... God has purposed that ALL is encompassed in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Before the foundation of the world, God predetermined that those who are faithful in the Lord Jesus Christ would be blessed with all spiritual blessings.

Those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness will not partake of spiritual blessings. Those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness reject God's goodness and grace and they suffer the consequence of their actions.

In the dispensation of the fulness of times, all believers will be gathered together to partake of the inheritance in the Lord Jesus Christ ...

God has purposed that those who trust in the Lord Jesus Christ in this lifetime will receive an inheritance ... Romans 8:17 tells us we are joint-heirs with the Lord Jesus Christ.

Are you faithful in the Lord Jesus Christ???





Another example of you ripping a verse out of the context within which God has set the verse.


Nebuchadnezzar had a dream:

Daniel 4:

4 I Nebuchadnezzar was at rest in mine house, and flourishing in my palace:

5 I saw a dream which made me afraid, and the thoughts upon my bed and the visions of my head troubled me.


Daniel interpreted the dream:

Daniel 4:

24 This is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree of the most High, which is come upon my lord the king:

25 That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

26 And whereas they commanded to leave the stump of the tree roots; thy kingdom shall be sure unto thee, after that thou shalt have known that the heavens do rule.

27 Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity.


Nebuchadnezzar did not break off his sins and iniquities. He did not show mercy to the poor. He claimed in vs 30 that he had built the kingdom by his power for the honor of his majesty. So the dream was fulfilled and at the end of the appointed time, Nebuchadnezzar claimed the words you submitted as your proof text:

Daniel 4:

34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?


Your proof text relates to Nebuchadnezzar, his dream, his wandering as a madman, his healing after he acknowledged the God of Daniel. When Nebuchadnezzar did that:

Daniel 4:

36 At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.

37 Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.
.

His reason returned after he acknowledged God? How could he acknowledge God before his reason was restored?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

His reason returned after he acknowledged God? How could he acknowledge God before his reason was restored?

Daniel 4:34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

His reason returned after he acknowledged God? How could he acknowledge God before his reason was restored?

Daniel 4:34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

.

 

[Cameron143]

Daniel 4:34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

.

Right. Your previous statement was wrong. Understanding came before praise.

 

[GWH]

I don't know exactly what you and others mean by "freewill".

The term "freewill" and/or "freewillers" should be clarified so we all know what is meant by the term (or at least I know what is meant by the term ... don't mean to imply that others are as ignorant as I am concerning "freewill" and/or "freewillers").

I believe God always makes the first move and mankind responds to God having done so. In responding to God:

some do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness and God brings increase.

some suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:20), remain unsaved, and receive the consequence of having done so.


I do not believe this is equal to:

"a denial of the Gospel" … or that it "promotes the false concept” that "God cant do what He wants with man in salvation".

I believe what I stated above comports with what God has declared in His Word:

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

When the gospel of Christ is revealed to a person and he or she believes, because the gospel is so powerful that person is saved ... the just shall live by faith.

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

When the gospel of Christ is revealed to a person and he or she suppresses the truth in unrighteousness, he or she reaps the consequence of having suppressed the truth ... he or she is without excuse.
.

The viewpoint opposed to TULIP may be termed Moral Free Will (MFW) and described as follows:

M – God’s requirement for salvation (GRFS) is a Moral condition called faith, which is manifested as seeking God’s righteousness or salvation, which in turn presumes sufficient human volition even for sinners to make them morally accountable.

F – God enables all morally accountable souls sufficient Freedom to satisfy GRFS—or not, because His grace is not irresistible, which means sinners are accountable and justly condemned when they do not repent and accept Christ’s atonement for their sins

W – Faith is almost synonymous with Will, but volition focuses on faith as cooperation with God (or not), and cooperating with God by accepting His grace is NOT meritorious or working to earn heaven or salvation by obeying moral laws.

Conducting a systematic study of the DOE necessitates interpreting Scripture that seems to be the fountainhead of the Calvinist TULIP dogma, mainly Romans 9:10-24, and attempting to harmonize it with Scripture supporting the more Arminian MFW doctrine. Thus, this study of election begins by surveying relevant Scripture regarding salvation/election (s/e) in Romans 1-11 as follows:

1. Romans 1:16 says the Gospel reveals that (s/e) is for “everyone who believes”, both Jew and Gentile.

2. Romans 1:17 describes s/e as “righteousness from God” that is by faith “from first to last” or from creation until the end and from conversion throughout sanctification.

This study of election and Romans 1-11 may be found in Lesson 10 of our website: <truthseekersfellowship.com>

 

[brightfame52]

@reneweddaybyday

This verse is not a standalone verse to ascribe whatever meaning we may or may not want.

Yet its a verse that describes the True God

 

[brightfame52]

@reneweddaybyday

More ripping of verses from the context within which God has placed the verses:

Its called highlighting what is in scripture, verifying its consistency in describing God, thats what scripture is for, to compare spiritual truths with spiritual truths 1 Cor 2:13

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

The Holy Ghost has a consistency of teaching throughout the scriptures within its various context.

You are probably intimidated by someone much more learned in the scripture than you, so your defense is the claim, they rip scripture out of context, but its a bogus claim

 

[brightfame52]

@reneweddaybyday

I believe God always makes the first move and mankind responds to God having done so. In responding to God:

Only if Gods first move is making a man alive from the dead, otherwise mans response will always be what is described in your pet scriptures Rom 1:19-32

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Thats the depravity of spiritually dead people, no freewill can help them, it must be a new birth

 

[Melach]

i have a challenge for those who believe in libertarian free will:

i challenge you to use your will to stop sinning.

report your findings truthfully. and what is your excuse for sinning? why do you keep doing it? stop at once!