At what point in our salvation is the blood of Christ applied?

[Ouch]

It doesn't matter what I explain to you. Your beliefs are fixed, and you are stuck in them. You obviously ignored (Psalm 51:5 and Romans 5:12).

Psalm 51:5 - Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.

Romans 5:12 - Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way, death came to all people, because all sinned.

The problem. (Romans 3:23) The solution. (Romans 6:23)

Repentance is a change of mind and the new direction of this change of mind as seen below is believe him/believe the gospel/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. Two sides to the same coin.

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Mark 16:16 - and saying, the time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe the gospel.

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

We receive the Holy Spirit when we believe in Him/believe in the Lord Jesus Christ/believe the gospel. (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; Ephesians 1:13) This happens the moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

Not even trying to answer, why?

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

How to get rid of sins.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

None of HIS word matters if you haven't gotten rid of your sins.

John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

Why quote it??

 

[Ouch]

It doesn't matter what I explain to you. Your beliefs are fixed, and you are stuck in them. You obviously ignored (Psalm 51:5 and Romans 5:12).

Psalm 51:5 - Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.

Romans 5:12 - Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way, death came to all people, because all sinned.

The problem. (Romans 3:23) The solution. (Romans 6:23)

Repentance is a change of mind and the new direction of this change of mind as seen below is believe him/believe the gospel/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. Two sides to the same coin.

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Mark 16:16 - and saying, the time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe the gospel.

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

We receive the Holy Spirit when we believe in Him/believe in the Lord Jesus Christ/believe the gospel. (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; Ephesians 1:13) This happens the moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

Men do the dividing, HE is not a respecter of persons.

HE LOVES US ALL THE SAME and is NOT the author of confusion.

There is ONE GOD and ONE gospel and ONE race the Human race.

Have YOU received the Holy Ghost since you have believed????

Notice I didn't ask you what your skin color is, or what country your from!! IT DOES NOT MATTER TO HIM only to you.

 

[GWH]

Ok. Then you cannot claim to be saved?

I am saved and will never perish. I have eternal life.

How do you not know that you have eternal life?

It's sad to talk with believers that don't KNOW they have LIFE.

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

I can claim to be saved as much as you.
I know that I have eternal life the same way you know.
It's sad to talk with believers who lack faith.

 

[Genez]

These were my questions!!!!!!

Did you even look at them.

1. Are we still born in sin?
2 Will sin enter heaven?

CAN YOU ANSWER THEM?????? OR NOT????

THIS IS HOW YOU ANSWERED THEM, THEY DON'T EVEN COME CLOSE TO ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.

Were we co-crucified with Christ?
Yes!

The body we were born with God no longer sees as alive.

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. ​

The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me ​

and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20​

How can God condemn believers for their sins after salvation when we have been co-crucified with Christ?


It is the Word.

 

[Ouch]

Were we co-crucified with Christ?
Yes!

The body we were born with God no longer sees as alive.

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. ​

The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me ​

and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20​

How can God condemn believers for their sins after salvation when we have been co-crucified with Christ?


It is the Word.

AMEN, as long as we have been reborn according to HIS WORD.

Believe, repent, get baptized in JESUS name and he fills us with his spirit. John 3:5, Acts 2:38.

 

[Beckworth]

Jesus had no sin your right that’s why we need to be baptized in his name we all have sin and it needs to be remitted in the one with now sin. He was baptized as an example for us who would believe in him .

We are baptized because we believe that he died for our sins who had no sin and was raised up again for our justification .


Paul isnt wuestion if the doctrine of baptism he’s just mad because they are all arguing about doctrine and explaining he wasn’t sent to baptize but to preach and reveal the gospel.

she even says he thsnks god he didn’t baotize any of them because they might say they were baptized in his name rather than Christs in that section of his letter

“Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

( it seems Paul’s just covering his base in case someone says “ naw he also baptized me “ I think he’s just saying “ I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else in your group.

Paul explains that he wasn’t sent to baptize people bit to preach the gospel and reveal deeper the message of the cross. But also he did baptize people at times showing its validity in the doctrine.

But the other apostles were specifically commanded to preach the gospel and baptize all nations in his name.

I think a good question to ask yourself is did Jesus chosen apostles filled with the Holy Ghost have baptism wrong ?

“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:12, 35-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

philip was a chosen witness and apostle filled with the holy spirit who unlike Paul was goven a commission to baptize in the name of the lord while preaching the gospel

also Peter was eas commanded to preach the gospel and baptize a chosen witness Peter this Peter

“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

….Now when they heard this, ( Peter preaches a really wonderfully edifying sermon and then ) they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:4, 37-39‬ ‭

people really never connect that before Paul was ever chosen as an apostle or converted to the church they were going around preaching the gospel and baptizing people as Jesus sent them to do even before that Jesus came spread throughout the whole regions because of all the miraculous works he was doing people even gentile had heard the word of the gospel see acts ten .

Paul’s role was to explain things deeply lie for instance oeter and the others were sent to baptize folks , Paul says “ I wasn’t sent to baptize but to preach “ in other places he says he was a revelator of the gospel . So his role if you notice his letters are totally different it’s because it’s revelation of all the things they had been doing and teaching .

The eventual obvious wuestion for a believer who got baptized might be

“what is baptism for and why did i get baptized into Jesus name for remission of my sins apostle Paul ? How does baptism relate to remission of sins Paul ?

So we find the revelation in the nt doctrine and oils most valuable role to which he was called not to baptize like all the others out there already baptizing but ……to do this

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.

…..But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ( because we died when we were baptized with Jesus who died” in our name “ for our sins ) ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-7, 17-18‬ ‭

Can you tell me more about baptisms meaning Paul ?

“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, ( he just explained the circumcision of or removal of sins of the flesh is baptism together with Christ Jesus ) hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

remission of sins. That’s why we are buried in his name beneath the water it needs to mean what Paul’s teaching us in order for it to be important and for us to know why people get baptized . Faith needs to hear the information god sent and believe .

Paul wasn’t a Baptist but a revelator of the subject matter in the gospel baptism is just one sibkect

if Paul taught there is one baptism and the apostles were baptizing in water in Jesus name we eaither have to like some here do say the apostles were wrong and didn’t understand baptism or we could just learn about what baptism is meant to mean to us so we act in faith for remission of sins

We need Paul’s revelations to indersrsnd things like baptism but it’s definately an important part of doctrine regarding remission of sins .

As I suggested in post # 695-696, Romans 6 is all about water baptism and what it means to us. It is a “picture” of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. This is Paul explaining what happens when we are baptized. We “die” to sin like Christ died on the cross; we are buried in water like Christ was buried in the tomb, and we are “raised” up out of the water like Christ was raised up out of the tomb. We are raised a new person to walk in “newness of life.” The old man of sin is dead; we have been “UNITED” with Christ in his death where he shed His blood. This is where we come into contact with his blood that “washes away our sins.” Acts 22:16.

 

[Mem]

I've tried twice to post replies and have encountered a crash each time so, now I'm encouraged all the more to send these thoughts.

“Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whetheAnd

“Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

Thanks for posting the context including these verses that led up to it. Here Paul is beseeching the brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that we all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among us
;but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

I have a difficult time imagining that Paul might've forgot who he baptized, especially if it is indeed such a necessary part of securing any person's salvation, that he'd have been at all laisse fair about it. And here, in that I bolded, Paul emphasizes the cruciality of being perfectly joined together, in the same mind, and in the same judgment.

And I don't believe that Paul is speaking in terms of the same mind as Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, but specifically speaking of the mind of Christ, and the same judgment (that, also, is rendered in Christ).

The old man of sin is “crucified” with Christ; that body of sin has been done away so that we are no longer “slaves of sin.” Now if we have died with Christ, we are no longer slaves of sin and we shall live with Him. All of this is talking about being water baptized as it starts out in the first 5 verses. It’s a beautiful picture of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. That’s what water baptism is.

So the baptism here “in The name of Jesus (Acts 2:38) is water baptism. What is the conclusion? You can’t legitimately wear the name of Christ—call yourself a “CHRIST-Ian”. Unless you have been baptized into the name of Christ. This is in perfect harmony with what Paul teaches over in Galatians 3:27. Those who have been baptized into Christ have “put on Christ.” You can’t rightfully call yourself a Christian if you have not “put on” Christ by being baptized into His name. That is Paul’s argument in 1 Corinthians 1.

I agree that water baptism can be viewed as a picture of baptism into Christ's death, burial, and resurrection but I hesitate to claim that it actually places anyone into "the Name of Christ" as much as being baptized into His mind does.

Naturally we would respond one way or another as we view Christ through our eyes and consider the impact to ourselves, but I'm convinced that it isn't until we view ourselves through the eyes of Christ that we are truly of the same mind, and the same judgment. And especially looking at the language of Christ's "suffering" of John's baptism, in order to fulfill all righteousness, just as he suffered to be crucified, in order to fulfill all righteousness, and died, in order to fulfill all righteousness, and was resurrected, in order to fulfill all righteousness. When I think of it that way, it becomes apparent that Jesus indeed fulfilled all righteousness for us and there is nothing left that we need do 'for our salvation' other than the smallest grain (offering) of faith that was asked of Abram.

And it is the same for us as it was at the moment that the blood of Christ was applied to Abram's account for his righteousness, which is pictured by the ram provided him instead of his son. Although it could be argued at what moment exact moment that he believed it, Abraham came to believe whether long before or not until the moment God asked it of him, Abraham proved his faith that God could, by His grace, resurrect the dead.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I've tried twice to post replies and have encountered a crash each time so, now I'm encouraged all the more to send these thoughts.




Thanks for posting the context including these verses that led up to it. Here Paul is beseeching the brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that we all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among us
;but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

I have a difficult time imagining that Paul might've forgot who he baptized, especially if it is indeed such a necessary part of securing any person's salvation, that he'd have been at all laisse fair about it. And here, in that I bolded, Paul emphasizes the cruciality of being perfectly joined together, in the same mind, and in the same judgment.

And I don't believe that Paul is speaking in terms of the same mind as Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, but specifically speaking of the mind of Christ, and the same judgment (that, also, is rendered in Christ).






I agree that water baptism can be viewed as a picture of baptism into Christ's death, burial, and resurrection but I hesitate to claim that it actually places anyone into "the Name of Christ" as much as being baptized into His mind does.

Naturally we would respond one way or another as we view Christ through our eyes and consider the impact to ourselves, but I'm convinced that it isn't until we view ourselves through the eyes of Christ that we are truly of the same mind, and the same judgment. And especially looking at the language of Christ's "suffering" of John's baptism, in order to fulfill all righteousness, just as he suffered to be crucified, in order to fulfill all righteousness, and died, in order to fulfill all righteousness, and was resurrected, in order to fulfill all righteousness. When I think of it that way, it becomes apparent that Jesus indeed fulfilled all righteousness for us and there is nothing left that we need do 'for our salvation' other than the smallest grain (offering) of faith that was asked of Abram.

And it is the same for us as it was at the moment that the blood of Christ was applied to Abram's account for his righteousness, which is pictured by the ram provided him instead of his son. Although it could be argued at what moment exact moment that he believed it, Abraham came to believe whether long before or not until the moment God asked it of him, Abraham proved his faith that God could, by His grace, resurrect the dead.

“;but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. “

yeah do you think we should all agree with Jesus judgements in the gospel and his apostles judgements in the scripture about things ?

Or just invent things to agree upon ?

What do we do when two believers believe different things about a si next such as baptism and don’t agree ? Shouldn’t we find out what gods word said and all agree with that ?

And honestly I read this as Paul saying “ I’m not sure if I baptized anyone else besides those few “ I don’t have any problem with that try other translations

“I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.)”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1:14-16‬ ‭NIV‬‬

It’s a side note in my opinion I don’t see any issue with what he’s said there meaning “ water baptism “ isn’t as simple as the word says .

Bit if you and I disagree in a discussion what do we do then ? Should we ever look into what gods word says and believe that and agree there ?

Or just remove those things and create other things to agree upon ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

As I suggested in post # 695-696, Romans 6 is all about water baptism and what it means to us. It is a “picture” of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. This is Paul explaining what happens when we are baptized. We “die” to sin like Christ died on the cross; we are buried in water like Christ was buried in the tomb, and we are “raised” up out of the water like Christ was raised up out of the tomb. We are raised a new person to walk in “newness of life.” The old man of sin is dead; we have been “UNITED” with Christ in his death where he shed His blood. This is where we come into contact with his blood that “washes away our sins.” Acts 22:16.

Yes I agree baptism is exactly about that but also look here this also is true and relates

“And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

look also here which adds more to the being raised up from the burial a new person in Christ

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s a lot of meaning to the doctrine in the Bible things like baptism are actions of faith . We get baptized because we believe the doctrine they preached about it like what Paul’s written in his letters such as these three examples

if we hear about it and then scoff and reject it as truth it’s never going to be of faith believing ……

a theres a lot to learn about things like baptism or other sinple basic things like communion ….in Paul’s letters

“For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭11:23-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we never start believing what he’s taught about these subjects like baptism for remission of sins or communion with the body and blood of Christ we’ll never be acting in any faith when participating in them

Clearly there is deep meaning in baptism. And other doctrine like communion we see it’s even affected thier health and spiritual awareness

“he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.”


as often as we hear the truth and then reject it and refuse to believe what the words teaching us were rejecting the effectual power of Gods word to change us and redeem us from the grave we’re headed for without him

baptisms power is what it means according to Gods word as you have pointed out there it’s the same with all the doctrine …..

 

[studier]

Did you happen to elaborate on this finding elsewhere maybe?

No. Still working & probably will be for a while. What I'm focusing on is the antithesis of how it's being presented on another thread by the Reformed group. As I've been saying, Heb11 tells us there's been Faith on the earth at least since Abel. Paul's entire focus as he begins is on men of Faith with the Gospel having been presented by the OC Prophets. This duality of men of Faith then unrighteous men who reject knowledge of God is being clearly discussed well into Rom3 where I'm currently working. When Paul brings up the list of issue with men not seeking God, etc., he's drawing from Ps14 & 53 that speak of this duality - fools who say there is no God (essentially the Rom1 who reject Him) and God's people (men of Faith like Rom1). The proponents of TULIP based election on another thread here laser focus on the unrighteous and seem to think the men of Faith never existed, but this is not Paul's message in Rom nor is it the message of the OC and the Psalms Paul draws from nor is it the message of the NC like Heb11.

Anyway, that's the gist of it at this point. I'm finding this to make it much easier to follow Paul in his arguments.

 

[Mem]

“;but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. “

yeah do you think we should all agree with Jesus judgements in the gospel and his apostles judgements in the scripture about things ?

Or just invent things to agree upon ?

What do we do when two believers believe different things about a si next such as baptism and don’t agree ? Shouldn’t we find out what gods word said and all agree with that ?

And honestly I read this as Paul saying “ I’m not sure if I baptized anyone else besides those few “ I don’t have any problem with that try other translations

“I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.)”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1:14-16‬ ‭NIV‬‬

It’s a side note in my opinion I don’t see any issue with what he’s said there meaning “ water baptism “ isn’t as simple as the word says .

Bit if you and I disagree in a discussion what do we do then ? Should we ever look into what gods word says and believe that and agree there ?

Or just remove those things and create other things to agree upon ?

I believe the same mind and the same judgment is indicative of Christ's mind as we should possess and, likewise, the same judgment rendered upon Christ that He endured on our behalf. That is we were dead, buried, and resurrected, and just as He is, so are we, wholly mind, body, and soul. But of course, you are free to disagree.

 

[Mem]

What was Jesus baptized into, I mean, wasn't He filled with the Spirit to begin with? And especially because it was so immediately afterward, I learn strongly toward a thinking that He was baptized into our sin and its judgment, our death, burial, and resurrection, and carried them from that point into the wilderness to be tested by Satan as the beginning of his journey to our (as much yours, mines, as His). So, if he was baptized into us, as to make way for us to become One with Him, then it would follow that our being baptized into fire would 'secure' our Unity with Him, considering that the result of placing fire with water, as we must be born of water and the spirit, is a 'new creation'... although it seems foolish to explain this by natural examples but... we've become the smoke in a sauna that nourishes and cleanses the skin... Ok, yea, I need to work on that illustration of the idea I'm trying to communicate, but... there's that.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I believe the same mind and the same judgment is indicative of Christ's mind as we should possess and, likewise, the same judgment rendered upon Christ that He endured on our behalf. That is we were dead, buried, and resurrected, and just as He is, so are we, wholly mind, body, and soul. But of course, you are free to disagree.

I don’t disagree with what you said there . I just am saying that doesn’t magically happen the mind of Christ is expressed in the gospel that we must believe to be saved

thats how we get the mind of Christ by hearing and learning from him in the gospel and applying those things to our lives ….

This is the mind of Christ and believers of the gospel receive it because they hear and believe his word

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He spoke his mind to believers so they could know him and hear his thinking

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Christian’s literally means “disciples of Jesus Christ “

“……And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭11:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Here are some things from the mind of Christ we’re supposed to hear and believe so he can change our minds ….

“And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

the only thing I would say about this post you wrote is it doesn’t just magically happen it happens because we believe the gospel Jesus sent into the world . As we listen to the gospel of our lord this happens over time but not if we reject his word

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; ( repent ) and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; ( hearing and believing the gospel does this for us it changes our mind over to be more like Christs )

and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

( take up the new identity not a sinner bound to sin bot as a child of God who Jesus taught us we are in the gospel )

( this doesn’t end our instructions ) Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: neither give place to the devil.

Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Ect … the doctrine is what changes our mind if we dont reject the word of we do reject Jesus word

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

where we disagree is I believe Jesus and his apostles taught the truth and whoever believes what they taught thier minds will become more and more like Christ as they begin to practice it because he teaches in the gospel us we need to practice what he preached

If were willing to listen to our Lord and learn from him I mean

““Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

( Its a conundrum to call someone your lord and then not submit to thier commands it’s contrary word and action )


As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.


But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation.

The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭NIV‬‬

These are Christs thoughts about things . Believers of the gospel who spend time with Jesus hearing him thier minds are changed by the lord that’s how he works in us . We listen to his word and it’s living and active and quickens our spirit

“It is the Spirit gives life;

the flesh counts for nothing.

The words I have spoken to you, are full of Spirit and life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭NIV‬‬

If we trust Jesus we need to listen to Jesus believing the gospel changes our mind

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Believing the gospel saves people but also n the gospel Jesus teaches us the right mind to have towards God , other people , ourselves , this finite world , eternity ect

the right mind is receives as we receive the word God sent out to save us and don’t reject it as he calls us home

“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he wants to save us but we have to repent of our rebellion and listen to him he suffered and died to make that possible

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we just decide to hear and believe Jesus who we profess faith in he will heal and redeem Our corrupt minds by his spirit

 

[Pilgrimshope]

What was Jesus baptized into, I mean, wasn't He filled with the Spirit to begin with? And especially because it was so immediately afterward, I learn strongly toward a thinking that He was baptized into our sin and its judgment, our death, burial, and resurrection, and carried them from that point into the wilderness to be tested by Satan as the beginning of his journey to our (as much yours, mines, as His). So, if he was baptized into us, as to make way for us to become One with Him, then it would follow that our being baptized into fire would 'secure' our Unity with Him, considering that the result of placing fire with water, as we must be born of water and the spirit, is a 'new creation'... although it seems foolish to explain this by natural examples but... we've become the smoke in a sauna that nourishes and cleanses the skin... Ok, yea, I need to work on that illustration of the idea I'm trying to communicate, but... there's that.

He was baptized for our benefit so we could be united with him in our baptism

he had no sin and was baptized we have sins and need remission of them but if we die in our sins we have no remission . We get baptized into Christ who had no sin , n order that ours are remitted in his death Jesus death

were baptized into his baptism when he received the spirit from heaven and then immediately it was said “ you are my child I’m well pleased with you “

when our sins are remitted this pleases God

jesus was baptized for us so we could be baptized into him who had no sin but yet he died for our sins and rose again having none of his own ….

if he hadn’t been baptized ours wouldn’t mean a thing and we couldn’t be baptized into him

 

[Mem]

This is the mind of Christ and believers of the gospel receive it because they hear and believe his word

By definition, or at least as I see it, agreeing with the mind of Christ is entering into unity with Him.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

By definition, or at least as I see it, agreeing with the mind of Christ is entering into unity with Him.

Right hearing and believing the gospel . That’s the way to know his mind and agree with it . It all comes back to this

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

truthfully if we don’t accept what God says baptism is and is done for and what it means for us by faith , we’re missing out on a lot of doctrine that holds a lot of transformative power to redeem us from sin and death .

We agree however that we need to agree with Christs word because that’s how he expressed his mind ….like men do with words and doctrine

 

[Magenta]

if he hadn’t been baptized ours wouldn’t mean a thing and we couldn’t be baptized into him

This is afar cry from anything Scripture says or even hints at. Do you ever consider that Jesus was baptized
because He was taking up His priestly duties, and baptism was required under the law for Him to do that?
Scripture actually speaks of the change of priesthood... one in the order of Melchizedek and not in the
order of Aaron, to which John the Baptist was born into.

 

[Magenta]

if he hadn’t been baptized ours wouldn’t mean a thing and we couldn’t be baptized into him

This is afar cry from anything Scripture says or even hints at. Do you ever consider that Jesus was baptized
because He was taking up His priestly duties, and baptism was required under the law for Him to do that?
Scripture actually speaks of these things, including the change of priesthood... one in and to the order of
Melchizedek and not in the order of Aaron, to which John the Baptist was born into.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

This is afar cry from anything Scripture says or even hints at. Do you ever consider that Jesus was baptized
because He was taking up His priestly duties, and baptism was required under the law for Him to do that?
Scripture actually speaks of the change of priesthood... one in the order of Melchizedek and not in the
order of Aaron, to which John the Baptist was born into.

This is afar cry from anything Scripture says or even hints at. Do you ever consider that Jesus was baptized
because He was taking up His priestly duties, and baptism was required under the law for Him to do that?
Scripture actually speaks of the change of priesthood... one in the order of Melchizedek and not in the
order of Aaron, to which John the Baptist was born into.

asp tou don’t see a correlation that Christ was baptized for remission of sins yet he had no sin . And sinners repenting and believing in him , then being baptized into his name for remission of sins ?

you see no relationship in scripture to this

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee. ( Malachi 3:1) John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1-2, 4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.

And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: and there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you see no hint in scripture that jesus being baptized for remission of sins ( not his sins however because he had none ) Gives this its meaning for people who believe he died for tbier sins ???

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

( like jesus did )

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. ( like jesus did )

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬


You see no hint that we’re baptized into Christ jesus by his name who has no sin and jesus being baptized for remission of sins when he hadn’t sinned ?….. i sure do sister read Roman’s 6-7 Colossians 2 for starters


Also scripture speaks of John the Baptist as well wouod you like to do a study on him and his baptism and how it came from God in heaven ? There’s a lot more than one would think about johns ministry , his identity , how he fulfilled several ot prophecies and prepares the people to receive the messiah ( who he preached faith in ) ? Could be informative but also will change your opinion of johns baptism

 

[Magenta]

asp tou don’t see a correlation that Christ was baptized for remission of sins yet he had no sin . And
sinners repenting and believing in him , then being baptized into his name for remission of sins ?

I cannot make out what this means besides you assuming you think you know what I believe when I already know you do not.

Did you answer my question?

You see no hint that we’re baptized into Christ jesus by his name who has no sin and jesus being baptized for
remission of sins when he hadn’t sinned ?….. i sure do sister read Roman’s 6-7 Colossians 2 for starters

I said no such thing.