My questions, be great if you could answer them with scripture.
1. Are we born in sin?
2. Will anyone in sin enter Heaven?
At what point in our salvation is the blood of Christ applied?
- Thread starter Beckworth
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My questions, be great if you could answer them with scripture.
1. Are we born in sin?
2. Will anyone in sin enter Heaven?
What would you prefer to hear?
The truth that Jesus taught in the gospel ….which is what i tell people they should learn and believe. I prefer to hear what Jesus said about being saved and believe him . And I’ll definately share that with anyone who will listen
Hear both.
And, to understand why things were said....
Jesus as a rabbi was teaching the Jews the golden rule.
"Treat others as you would want to be treated. "
That was the beauty of Judaism at its best.
But, before Jesus was about to depart?
Before the Church age was about to begin?
He gave a new command...
"To love another as He had loved them."
That was directed towards those who about to become a new creation in Christ!
How would that be different?
Because it was needed?
This is how Jesus loved Peter.
Matthew 16:21-23
From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem,
and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed,
and be raised the third day.
Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord;
this shall not happen to You!”
But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me,
for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”
That is how none of us would normally want to be treated.
No golden rule there.
Because the Church needs to walk in sound doctrine and the filling of the Holy Spirit?
There will be times, when believers are walking according to the things of men.
They will need to be rebuked by those delegated by God to do so, to be confronted
with truth that could make ordinary men angry if they can not see God's ways for the Church.
The Golden rule was for all mankind.
Believer and unbeliever.
To love each other as He had loved His disciples?
That is only for the Church.
“Hear both.”
Both of what ? Lol I said I prefer the truth that Jesus and his apostles taught …..there is no both of that there’s the truth Jesus and his apostles revealed and taught and partook of themselves then there’s a bunch of doctrines designed to get people to disbelieve that true doctrine and lead others away as well
Im Only interested in biblical things like baptism in Jesus name for remission of sins Taught by he and his apostles . I want to know what they said not what someone else tells me that’s opposite
I agree.
Those that hold to a form of Godliness think salvation can be lost or forfeited. And think some cannot believe to be saved.
Anyone can believe and be saved.
The saved individual will never perish.
Never perish.
No, absolutely no condemnation.
Born from imperishable seed.
Sealed as the Son is sealed.
You have eternal life.
I prefer bible doctrine. Most believers get sermon doctrine.
Right me too bible doctrine like this
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
……. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
Acts 2:38-42, 47
That’s biblical written word doctrine but instead some folks here that and say “ no no Peter has it wrong I want to just tell you what’s biblical and it’s not baptism in Jesus name for remission of sins and it certainly wasn’t done in water”
“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
Acts 8:35-39 KJV
biblical doctrine is correct we agree there
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
But on the other hand rejecting biblical doctrine and explaining why it’s wrong isn’t a good stance in my opinion
Put it all in real life @Pilgrimshope.
Our brains stay active for a few minutes after death.
If the Lord asked you," What are you going to rely on for your salvation? Me or your water dunk?"
What would you say to the Lord?
I would say lord I rely on what you told me will save me , what you told me remits my sins , lord Jesus i relied on you speaking the truth to me and trusted the things you said will save me the things you sent into the world promising salvation lord I trusted you I believe what you did fornus all and I took you at your word . Lord and believes the gospel you sent into the world to save us and I praise your name forever ….then I suppose I’d face the judgement the Bible tells us about that’s always rejected by the same folks who reject baptism for remission of sins
but if I’m asked I’d say lord I trusted your word about salvation even when many tries to pry me from it , I cling to your word because I believed what you said “
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:18-20 KJV
It’s not a good argument to say “ if you believe what the Bible teaches then you trust yourself “ it’s gods true word he only spoke his doctrine because we’re supposed to hear and believe it and then of course act upon that belief but sometimes people just reject it up front
I'm convinced this is key in answering the title question, "At what point in our salvation is the blood of Christ applied." That is, if the process is mirrored in the first Passover, wherein the household was required to dwell with the selected lamb before applying its blood on their doorpost, and also in the temple practices of placing their hands on an offering and thereby transferring their sin onto the animal and as on the Day of Atonement wherein the high priest enters the Holy of Holies once a year to make an offering for the sins of the people, and Christ is the reality fulfilling all that these practices foreshadowed, then I'm left wondering exactly which ritual does John's baptism of Christ fulfill as, after some protest from John, Jesus suffered it to be done in order to "fulfill all righteousness." Now, I'm aware of the existing reasons already presented as the right idea, such as this being representative His initiation into the office of the high priest, but still, I'm left wondering why this would be needed considering there is no sin in Jesus to begin with, unlike Aaron or any other. So, what, exactly, could have been at all righteous in baptizing a sinless man for the remission of sin? This is not to say that I think this in no way was a fulfillment of a righteousness, I'm sure it must've had in some way or another, but I just know it wasn't done "for the remission of sin."
And so, I keep wondering, could this be the exact representation of Jesus' "baptism with which I am baptized"? That is, specifically, could this have been the moment of His baptism into all of our sin? Especially as I think of His being led into the wilderness immediately afterward, just as it happened as the scapegoat is sent after the people's sin is laid on its head.
If I could come to a definitive conclusion of this question, I think it would also provide me with a definitive answer to the question of the necessity of a water baptism as part and parcel into the baptism into the body of Christ.
Something that Paul said keeps me from arriving at the same conclusion as the Baptist' tenant of water baptism. Paul said something, I think, along the lines of, "I don't know if I baptized anyone (except one)." I mean, how does anyone not know if they'd baptized anyone unless the baptism spoken of isn't as clear as a water baptism?
Jesus had no sin your right that’s why we need to be baptized in his name we all have sin and it needs to be remitted in the one with now sin. He was baptized as an example for us who would believe in him .
We are baptized because we believe that he died for our sins who had no sin and was raised up again for our justification .
Paul isnt wuestion if the doctrine of baptism he’s just mad because they are all arguing about doctrine and explaining he wasn’t sent to baptize but to preach and reveal the gospel.
she even says he thsnks god he didn’t baotize any of them because they might say they were baptized in his name rather than Christs in that section of his letter
“Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
( it seems Paul’s just covering his base in case someone says “ naw he also baptized me “ I think he’s just saying “ I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else in your group.
Paul explains that he wasn’t sent to baptize people bit to preach the gospel and reveal deeper the message of the cross. But also he did baptize people at times showing its validity in the doctrine.
But the other apostles were specifically commanded to preach the gospel and baptize all nations in his name.
I think a good question to ask yourself is did Jesus chosen apostles filled with the Holy Ghost have baptism wrong ?
“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
Acts 8:12, 35-39 KJV
philip was a chosen witness and apostle filled with the holy spirit who unlike Paul was goven a commission to baptize in the name of the lord while preaching the gospel
also Peter was eas commanded to preach the gospel and baptize a chosen witness Peter this Peter
“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Matthew 16:18-19 KJV
“And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
….Now when they heard this, ( Peter preaches a really wonderfully edifying sermon and then ) they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
Acts 2:4, 37-39
people really never connect that before Paul was ever chosen as an apostle or converted to the church they were going around preaching the gospel and baptizing people as Jesus sent them to do even before that Jesus came spread throughout the whole regions because of all the miraculous works he was doing people even gentile had heard the word of the gospel see acts ten .
Paul’s role was to explain things deeply lie for instance oeter and the others were sent to baptize folks , Paul says “ I wasn’t sent to baptize but to preach “ in other places he says he was a revelator of the gospel . So his role if you notice his letters are totally different it’s because it’s revelation of all the things they had been doing and teaching .
The eventual obvious wuestion for a believer who got baptized might be
“what is baptism for and why did i get baptized into Jesus name for remission of my sins apostle Paul ? How does baptism relate to remission of sins Paul ?
So we find the revelation in the nt doctrine and oils most valuable role to which he was called not to baptize like all the others out there already baptizing but ……to do this
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.
…..But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ( because we died when we were baptized with Jesus who died” in our name “ for our sins ) ye became the servants of righteousness.”
Romans 6:3-7, 17-18
Can you tell me more about baptisms meaning Paul ?
“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, ( he just explained the circumcision of or removal of sins of the flesh is baptism together with Christ Jesus ) hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
Colossians 2:11-13 KJV
remission of sins. That’s why we are buried in his name beneath the water it needs to mean what Paul’s teaching us in order for it to be important and for us to know why people get baptized . Faith needs to hear the information god sent and believe .
Paul wasn’t a Baptist but a revelator of the subject matter in the gospel baptism is just one sibkect
if Paul taught there is one baptism and the apostles were baptizing in water in Jesus name we eaither have to like some here do say the apostles were wrong and didn’t understand baptism or we could just learn about what baptism is meant to mean to us so we act in faith for remission of sins
We need Paul’s revelations to indersrsnd things like baptism but it’s definately an important part of doctrine regarding remission of sins .
I don’t believe the “process is mirrored in the Passover.” If by process you mean water baptism, the Bible answers that question for us in Romans 6. That entire chapter is about baptism and what it does and what it means to us. Water baptism is a mirror of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The things in the Old Testament were but “shadows” of the REAL things to come with Christ. Types and anti types. Romans 6:3-5 tells us that when we are water baptized, we are “buried”. With Christ into His DEATH! So we go down into the water, “buried” in water, like Christ died and was buried in the tomb; then just as Christ was resurrected out of the tomb, we rise up out of the water. Water baptism is a “death, burial, and resurrection” just like Jesus Christ had. That chapter goes on to say, that we “die” to sin. (repentance) and are “buried” into Christ’s death ( in water). In Christ’s death is where he shed His BLOOD. Where else are you going to find the blood of Christ except in His death where He actually BLED? It’s at that moment—when we come into contact with His blood, in His death, that His blood washes away our sins, (Acts 22:16), and that is why Roman’s 6:4 says we are “raised to walk in newness of life.” We go into the water a sinner, but we come up out of the water to a “new” person and a new life. We are “UNITED” with Christ in His death (verse The exact moment we come into contact with the “blood” of Christ.
The old man of sin is “crucified” with Christ; that body of sin has been done away so that we are no longer “slaves of sin.” Now if we have died with Christ, we are no longer slaves of sin and we shall live with Him. All of this is talking about being water baptized as it starts out in the first 5 verses. It’s a beautiful picture of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. That’s what water baptism is.
I just want to make a comment on the last paragraph. I believe the passage you are referring to is 1 Corinthians chapter 1. Paul makes an interesting point about water baptism here. He makes an argument as to why people should not call themselves after men. ( Think Lutherans who call themselves after Martin Luther.). He argues that in order for someone to call themselves by some man’s name ( like verse 12,) he said 2 things must be true; Number 1 - that person would have to have been crucified for you (like Christ), and Number 2 - you would have to be baptized into that person’s name. This is the same baptism that Peter talks about in Actsc3:38 when he tells those Jews that they must be baptized into the name of Jesus Christ. I know it’s water baptism because they don’t receive the Holy Spirit until AFTER they are baptized; so he cant be talking about Holy Spirit baptism. So the baptism here “in The name of Jesus (Acts 2:38) is water baptism. What is the conclusion? You can’t legitimately wear the name of Christ—call yourself a “CHRIST-Ian”. Unless you have been baptized into the name of Christ. This is in perfect harmony with what Paul teaches over in Galatians 3:27. Those who have been baptized into Christ have “put on Christ.” You can’t rightfully call yourself a Christian if you have not “put on” Christ by being baptized into His name. That is Paul’s argument in 1 Corinthians 1.
These were my questions!!!!!!
Did you even look at them.
1. Are we still born in sin?
2 Will sin enter heaven?
CAN YOU ANSWER THEM?????? OR NOT????
THIS IS HOW YOU ANSWERED THEM, THEY DON'T EVEN COME CLOSE TO ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.
John 4:10-14
10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?
12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?
13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
John 7:37-39
37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
John 15
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Acts 11:17-18
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Acts 13:38-39
38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Acts 15:7-9
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Acts 26:18
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
I already answered your questions. You just don't have eyes to see or ears to hear what those passages of scripture say.
Sorry you did not.
If you don't even know if we are born in sin how would you possibly know how to get rid of it?
Were stuck right here, didn't even speak of repentance and can't even move on to receiving the Holy Ghost.
It doesn't matter what I explain to you. Your beliefs are fixed, and you are stuck in them. You obviously ignored (Psalm 51:5 and Romans 5:12).
Psalm 51:5 - Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.
Romans 5:12 - Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way, death came to all people, because all sinned.
The problem. (Romans 3:23) The solution. (Romans 6:23)
Repentance is a change of mind and the new direction of this change of mind as seen below is believe him/believe the gospel/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. Two sides to the same coin.
Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
Mark 16:16 - and saying, the time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe the gospel.
Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.
We receive the Holy Spirit when we believe in Him/believe in the Lord Jesus Christ/believe the gospel. (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; Ephesians 1:13) This happens the moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.