Loss of salvation???

[Genez]

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

That is an easy thing to misunderstand.

Jesus' message was given to Jews who heard Him preach before the Church age had begun.

That refers to when Jews will be suffering on earth during the seven year Tribulation.
Those who endure to the end?
They will be delivered, and will be entered into the promised new heaven and new earth of the Millennium.

The Jews had promises in the OT concerning entering into the Millennial reign of their Messiah.
They knew it as the Kingdom of God.

​

​

New Heavens and a New Earth​

​

“See, I will create​

new heavens and a new earth.​

The former things will not be remembered,​

nor will they come to mind.​

But be glad and rejoice forever​

in what I will create,​

for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight​

and its people a joy." ​

​

Isaiah 65:17-18​

That is why the Jews were asking Jesus about when will the kingdom of God be set up on earth!

That is what Jesus, who was teaching as the perfect rabbi, was referring about. That Jews endure to be delivered (saved)
and enter into the Kingdom on earth!

The Church is promised a heavenly kingdom.
We will reign with Christ on earth.
Jews will live on the new earth under Christ.

 

[Ouch]

That is an easy thing to misunderstand.

Jesus' message was given to Jews who heard Him preach before the Church age had begun.

That refers to when Jews will be suffering on earth during the seven year Tribulation.
Those who endure to the end?
They will be delivered, and will be entered into the promised new heaven and new earth of the Millennium.

The Jews had promises in the OT concerning entering into the Millennial reign of their Messiah.
They knew it as the Kingdom of God.

​

​

New Heavens and a New Earth​

​

“See, I will create​

new heavens and a new earth.​

The former things will not be remembered,​

nor will they come to mind.​

But be glad and rejoice forever​

in what I will create,​

for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight​

and its people a joy." ​

​

Isaiah 65:17-18​

That is why the Jews were asking Jesus about when will the kingdom of God be set up on earth!

That is what Jesus, who was teaching as the perfect rabbi, was referring about. That Jews endure to be delivered (saved)
and enter into the Kingdom on earth!

The Church is promised a heavenly kingdom.
We will reign with Christ on earth.
Jews will live on the new earth under Christ.

Be best if we look at what JESUS is taking about.

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

He is speaking of the end times and the warning of false prophets and what is to come so they can prepare themselves so they don't fall for the tricks of Satan.

JESUS gave us a path to be reborn, Believe, repent, get baptized in JESUS WONDERFUL name to get rid of our sins and we still need JESUS to fill us with HIMSELF HIS spirit to be reborn. John 3:5, Acts 2:38

BUT TODAY, false prophets saying once saved always saved.

We are saved by faith or grace alone.

It was all finished at the cross.

Paul preached a different message.

Say this prayer and your saved, being baptized is for show.

Being baptized in JESUS titles and not HIS NAME.


Here is what happens to those WHO DO NOT FOLLOW what HE says we must do to be saved.

Matthew 7,
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

NOTICE AFTER he sent people TO HELL WHO WORKED for him maybe their whole life HE SPEAKS OF FOUNDATION.

Foundation is the key.

ALL IN LOVE.

 

[Musicmaster]

Yea, they were not dead yet, so he is speaking of the future!!

Share scripture where we are are reborn the moment we believe or whatever it is YOU THINK.

You have a knack for missing the point that was clearly stated. When we believe Christ Jesus was crucified, buried and resurrected on the third day, we are saved and sealed by Holy Spirit, not at some future point at the point of death. Israel, under the Kingdom Gospel, were not sealed by Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

I have yet to find one verse anywhere in scripture where Israel, under the Kingdom Gospel, is ever told that they were sealed unto the day of redemption, either before or after the cross. I encourage reading the above two verses in context, and then searching the broader landscape. You did quote earlier your recognition that they had to "endure unto the end," which makes no mention of sealing by Holy Spirit. The silence along that line is deafening when considering that they were saved at the point of faith, but only if they endured unto the end of their lives. That was the case then, but is not the case at the enlivenment of the Gospel of Grace.

Some out there believe the seal of Holy Spirit is weak, and therefore Holy Spirit places that weak seal upon those whom He seals. Frankly, that would be like saying that a down payment of earnest money is returned. We all know that's not the case generally speaking. Earnest money is always the legal ownership of the party receiving that earnest money, not something the giver can take back. Many talk about the Sovereignty of God, and yet don't believe that He can and did sovereignly choose to grant unto mankind free moral agency to choose to call upon His name or not.

All such beliefs that don't align with scripture, although plentiful, fail to match up with what is written. The better illustration of the Kingdom Gospel's relinquishment of salvation (if one fails to endure) will be the taking of the mark of the beast. Those who take that will be lost forever, and if they will have been sealed at some point of faith and then take the mark, they will fail to have persevered, thus damning themselves to eternal fire. Those under the Kingdom Gospel were still zealous for the Law of Moses, and in so doing were enduring.

The new birth, under the Kingdom Gospel, was indeed what was for them, but Paul nowhere established a new birth for we who are under the Gospel of Grace. We are a new creature:

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Birthing versus miraculously becoming something new are not the same thing in the Greek language, although seemingly being a glaring similarity in the English Language. This is one example of the problems in translation into a different language, even when Latin ties still exist. It is Israel who cried for His death and burial, and therefore the water baptism being more aligned with us who are of Israel, not Gentiles. Hopefully that will lend to the reasoning behind water baptism not being of any significance to Gentiles who had nothing to do with the demand for the crucifixion, although Gentiles were the instrument for the crucifixion, with Satan and his princes being the main motivators for it.

MM

 

[Ouch]

You have a knack for missing the point that was clearly stated. When we believe Christ Jesus was crucified, buried and resurrected on the third day, we are saved and sealed by Holy Spirit, not at some future point at the point of death. Israel, under the Kingdom Gospel, were not sealed by Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

I have yet to find one verse anywhere in scripture where Israel, under the Kingdom Gospel, is ever told that they were sealed unto the day of redemption, either before or after the cross. I encourage reading the above two verses in context, and then searching the broader landscape. You did quote earlier your recognition that they had to "endure unto the end," which makes no mention of sealing by Holy Spirit. The silence along that line is deafening when considering that they were saved at the point of faith, but only if they endured unto the end of their lives. That was the case then, but is not the case at the enlivenment of the Gospel of Grace.

Some out there believe the seal of Holy Spirit is weak, and therefore Holy Spirit places that weak seal upon those whom He seals. Frankly, that would be like saying that a down payment of earnest money is returned. We all know that's not the case generally speaking. Earnest money is always the legal ownership of the party receiving that earnest money, not something the giver can take back. Many talk about the Sovereignty of God, and yet don't believe that He can and did sovereignly choose to grant unto mankind free moral agency to choose to call upon His name or not.

All such beliefs that don't align with scripture, although plentiful, fail to match up with what is written. The better illustration of the Kingdom Gospel's relinquishment of salvation (if one fails to endure) will be the taking of the mark of the beast. Those who take that will be lost forever, and if they will have been sealed at some point of faith and then take the mark, they will fail to have persevered, thus damning themselves to eternal fire. Those under the Kingdom Gospel were still zealous for the Law of Moses, and in so doing were enduring.

The new birth, under the Kingdom Gospel, was indeed what was for them, but Paul nowhere established a new birth for we who are under the Gospel of Grace. We are a new creature:

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Birthing versus miraculously becoming something new are not the same thing in the Greek language, although seemingly being a glaring similarity in the English Language. This is one example of the problems in translation into a different language, even when Latin ties still exist. It is Israel who cried for His death and burial, and therefore the water baptism being more aligned with us who are of Israel, not Gentiles. Hopefully that will lend to the reasoning behind water baptism not being of any significance to Gentiles who had nothing to do with the demand for the crucifixion, although Gentiles were the instrument for the crucifixion, with Satan and his princes being the main motivators for it.

MM

So just reading them and your saved?

I don't see any instruction on how to be saved?

Share scripture where we are are reborn the moment we believe or whatever it is YOU THINK.

Something like, Paul said in 1 cor ___ :___ the moment you believe you are saved!! BUT YOU HAVE TO FILL IN THE BLANKS.

 

[Genez]

Be best if we look at what JESUS is taking about.

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

He is speaking of the end times and the warning of false prophets and what is to come so they can prepare themselves so they don't fall for the tricks of Satan.

JESUS gave us a path to be reborn, Believe, repent, get baptized in JESUS WONDERFUL name to get rid of our sins and we still need JESUS to fill us with HIMSELF HIS spirit to be reborn. John 3:5, Acts 2:38

BUT TODAY, false prophets saying once saved always saved.

We are saved by faith or grace alone.

It was all finished at the cross.

Paul preached a different message.

Say this prayer and your saved, being baptized is for show.

Being baptized in JESUS titles and not HIS NAME.


Here is what happens to those WHO DO NOT FOLLOW what HE says we must do to be saved.

Matthew 7,
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

NOTICE AFTER he sent people TO HELL WHO WORKED for him maybe their whole life HE SPEAKS OF FOUNDATION.

Foundation is the key.

ALL IN LOVE.

Lot of words said.
Did you have something to say?
You were scattered all over the place.

Please ... keep it to one thought at a time.
Keep a thought flowing, please.

 

[Genez]

That is a hard one for many....


He was STILL ALIVE when He said, " It is finished!"

That is where the Holy Spirit must be operational in their lives.
It is a type of teaching that separates those who walk religiously,
and those who walk in the Spirit and in truth.

Baby Christians are exempt in these situations.

 

[Ouch]

Lot of words said.
Did you have something to say?
You were scattered all over the place.

Please ... keep it to one thought at a time.
Keep a thought flowing, please.

Keep it simple HE WAS speaking to ALL and about enduring to the end. Not just the Jews.

 

[Kroogz]

That is where the Holy Spirit must be operational in their lives.
It is a type of teaching that separates those who walk religiously,
and those who walk in the Spirit and in truth.

Baby Christians are exempt in these situations.

And another thing Brother.....This is why salvation is so easy and by Grace.....Acts 16:31.

Most of us will never understand the substitutionary SPIRITUAL death of The Lord Jesus Christ.......But He still saves all who trust Him.

None understand the deep things of God unless they devote themselves to Bible doctrine. Understand fellowship and walking in the Spirit and truth.

But us peons can be saved(Have eternal life)........By simply trusting in Christ.

 

[Kroogz]

Keep it simple HE WAS speaking to ALL and about enduring to the end. Not just the Jews.

He is talking to all that have to endure the tribulation. Keep it simple. A PHYSICAL life will be spared for those who endure.

All those who have believed in the Lord Jesus Christ have eternal life.

 

[Ouch]

He is talking to all that have to endure the tribulation. Keep it simple. A PHYSICAL life will be spared for those who endure.

All those who have believed in the Lord Jesus Christ have eternal life.

He is speaking to those who are alive, then and now. We all will die, and it's his message is not just for the tribulation.

You really should read that chapter to understand it.

There is more that one must do than just believe to be saved.

Do you follow HIS word? Do you think it's TRUE?

Mark 16:16-17
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Tell me how does just believing get rid of your sins????????????

 

[Kroogz]

Tell me how does just believing get rid of your sins????????????

Your sins have not been an issue since Adam. Christ paid for all sin.

Our EVIL is the concern. Your human good and "good deeds" will send you to the LoF. Nothing you do will measure up to what The Lord Jesus Christ did for you.

Matt7:22
Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’

Rev 20:12
And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.