Prophesied by Joel...
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Excuse me, Jesus was very clear about Divorce, too, yet you find Pastors who have been and remarried. I don't hold to women being Pastors, Yet I understand why there are women pastors today.
But, that being said, it is a sidebar issue and a deflection from the word of God I provided to you that YOU are avoiding. Stay on topic.
How can you not explain Acts 1:8 Jesus speaking , Luke 24:49 Jesus Speaking , 1cor chapter 12 through 14 Paul Speaking
And None of them said the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today in their words. Please let me know your understanding of these passages and let the women alone for now.
But, that being said, it is a sidebar issue and a deflection from the word of God I provided to you that YOU are avoiding. Stay on topic.
How can you not explain Acts 1:8 Jesus speaking , Luke 24:49 Jesus Speaking , 1cor chapter 12 through 14 Paul Speaking
And None of them said the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today in their words. Please let me know your understanding of these passages and let the women alone for now.
Excuse me, you don't know my Theology or Doctrine.
You assume but are very much unlearned in my experiences.
You do hate it, and it's very clear in your responses.
You're incapable of merit-based discussion.
For example, you have nowhere in any post with me saying I support or agree that everyone must speak in tongues to be saved.
Two: You have no statement from me saying one is not saved if they do not speak in tongues.
Three: You do not have me saying one is not saved if not baptized in Jesus' name.
But you think you know my understanding. That is hate, my friend.
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I dont know your special doctrine thats right.
The pentecostal and charismatic spectrum of doctrines is very wide. But unique is that speaking in tongues is taught as a visible sign that someone is baptisesd in the Holy Spirit. If I am wrong, then tell me. And this particular teachings are since 1901 in practice. During churchhistory and I mean the time after the apostolic time till 1901
speaking in tongues were practiced mainly from cults. 1901, because Agnes Ozman is called from the Pentecostal movements as first person who received the Holy Spirit with the sign of speaking in tongues.
Several years after Azusa the pentecostal movenent splittet in the the Oness pentecostal and the remain pentecostals.
Th Oness pentecostal f.e. believe that you need the speaking in tongues for to be saved.
Till today we have plenty pentecostal directions and doctrines plus the dfferent charismaric movements with their teachings.
To which you belong?
BTW, your examples fit not!
I never blamed you that you believe someone must speak in tongues for to be saved. ore your points 2 and 3. I gave response to those who claim this, like @wanswick did.
The pentecostal and charismatic spectrum of doctrines is very wide. But unique is that speaking in tongues is taught as a visible sign that someone is baptisesd in the Holy Spirit. If I am wrong, then tell me. And this particular teachings are since 1901 in practice. During churchhistory and I mean the time after the apostolic time till 1901
speaking in tongues were practiced mainly from cults. 1901, because Agnes Ozman is called from the Pentecostal movements as first person who received the Holy Spirit with the sign of speaking in tongues.
Several years after Azusa the pentecostal movenent splittet in the the Oness pentecostal and the remain pentecostals.
Th Oness pentecostal f.e. believe that you need the speaking in tongues for to be saved.
Till today we have plenty pentecostal directions and doctrines plus the dfferent charismaric movements with their teachings.
To which you belong?
BTW, your examples fit not!
I never blamed you that you believe someone must speak in tongues for to be saved. ore your points 2 and 3. I gave response to those who claim this, like @wanswick did.
when you are wrong but have to be right because...well....it's your entire psyche at stake
try reading with the intent to comprehend rather than the desire to be more right than the Bible
Only he did say that.
Now I desire you all to speak in tongues, but rather that you should prophesy. Now the one prophesying is greater than the one speaking in tongues, unless he should interpret, so that the church might receive edification. I Cor.14:5
and he also said what you note about from I Cor. 14:18
Saying he would prefer prophecy does not detract from what he said about tongues. As it is, when tongues are translated, he equals them to prophecy, which is what the 'unless' is there for.
I DID NOT SAY ANYONE WAS SPEAKING IN TONGUES. whatever smh What does I DESIRE YOU ALL TO SPEAK IN TONGUES MEAN IF NOT I WISH YOU WOULD ALL SPEAK IN TONGUES?
I suppose you think if you don't speak in tongues you are not saved? Or do you have a preference for a certain way to speak in tongues or timing or personal preference not found in scripture.
I know I sound angry here, but people adding to and or denying what is plainly written seems to be somewhat of a hobby in this forum
can't wait for your correction
try reading with the intent to comprehend rather than the desire to be more right than the Bible
Only he did say that.
Now I desire you all to speak in tongues, but rather that you should prophesy. Now the one prophesying is greater than the one speaking in tongues, unless he should interpret, so that the church might receive edification. I Cor.14:5
and he also said what you note about from I Cor. 14:18
Saying he would prefer prophecy does not detract from what he said about tongues. As it is, when tongues are translated, he equals them to prophecy, which is what the 'unless' is there for.
I DID NOT SAY ANYONE WAS SPEAKING IN TONGUES. whatever smh What does I DESIRE YOU ALL TO SPEAK IN TONGUES MEAN IF NOT I WISH YOU WOULD ALL SPEAK IN TONGUES?
I suppose you think if you don't speak in tongues you are not saved? Or do you have a preference for a certain way to speak in tongues or timing or personal preference not found in scripture.
I know I sound angry here, but people adding to and or denying what is plainly written seems to be somewhat of a hobby in this forum
can't wait for your correction
The scripture in question was 1 Corinthians 14:18. Does the scripture reference how much Paul speaks in tongues? Or, that he speaks in tongues while others do not? Note the answer is confirmed by what he goes on to say in verse 19.
"I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue." 1 Cor. 14:18-19
Accusation. This isn't a court here. It is easy to prove you are wrong as I have already done. I will go over it again later. Get a grip. It is not even about whether tongues are translated or not. That's just your fog machine at work trying to confuse people but again, I will go over it again later when I have time to waste.
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I think he does not actually even try at this point. It's just noise but sadly, if someone does not know what scripture actually states, he could confuse them. I have seen him do this in every post that even hints at tongues. So many people do not seem to understand what scripture actually states.
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First off, I don't have a special doctrine, another lie you continue to say.
The Pentacostel experience comes from The Lord Jesus himself, found in Acts 1:8 that the gifts of the Holy Spirit were taught in 1cor chapters 12 through 14. You fail to see that in scripture.
The error in your understanding is that you say it is (tongues ) that was taught "as a visible sign that someone is baptized in the Holy Spirit. "
You are willing to speak about the what of the teaching, not the Why it is taught.
In most incidents in scripture, When the Spirit of the Lord came upon a person in the Old Testament, they Prophesied
Numbers 11:25
1 Samuel 10:6-7
Joel 2:28
In the Old Testament, the Empowerment of the Holy Spirit, also known as the Spirit of the Living God and Spirit of God
only came upon Kings, Prophets, rulers, priests, and judges.
Mostly men, some women. All Hebrews or Jews with few exceptions.
Joel, which you like to use? Prophesied that :
“And it shall come to pass afterward
That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions.
29 And also on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
This prophecy was fulfilled in Acts 2:4
"2 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all [a]with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them [b]divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."
"14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only
the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: "
Peter then quoted Joel's Chapter 2
In the New Testament, this experience of Empowerment
This is the context of the event that happened on Pentacost, as recorded in Acts chapter 1:8, as to why it happened.
Jesus said YOU shall receive power after the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you shall be my witnesses.
The empowerment happened, and this gift was to the Jews first, Gentiles, and the world.
The History of the Church and The Acts of the Holy Spirit are seen throughout the Book of Acts, the Spirit poured out on women and Gentiles. This was a repeated event over and over again, and all who were filled with the Spirit in the New Testament spoke in tongues or prophesied, and it was documented.
How did they know they prophesied? How did they know they spoke in tongues?
What happened that caused the commotion recorded in Acts chapter 2?
Why did Paul teach about this gift and all of them in 1 Corinthians chapters 12 through 14?
You get stuck on Azusa Street and say it was a cult. How so? If I am in a cult, I can't be saved, right?
Are those in a cult able to be saved?
I want to hear your position because you can't have it both ways .
That is why you are a person of hate.
I am perfectly ok with you not accepting tongues as of today and still think you can be saved.
Yet your hate, which Jesus said, is a massive issue for those who do may qestion your own relationship with Christ.
I wait for your answer.
Thank you.
The Pentacostel experience comes from The Lord Jesus himself, found in Acts 1:8 that the gifts of the Holy Spirit were taught in 1cor chapters 12 through 14. You fail to see that in scripture.
The error in your understanding is that you say it is (tongues ) that was taught "as a visible sign that someone is baptized in the Holy Spirit. "
You are willing to speak about the what of the teaching, not the Why it is taught.
In most incidents in scripture, When the Spirit of the Lord came upon a person in the Old Testament, they Prophesied
Numbers 11:25
1 Samuel 10:6-7
Joel 2:28
In the Old Testament, the Empowerment of the Holy Spirit, also known as the Spirit of the Living God and Spirit of God
only came upon Kings, Prophets, rulers, priests, and judges.
Mostly men, some women. All Hebrews or Jews with few exceptions.
Joel, which you like to use? Prophesied that :
“And it shall come to pass afterward
That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions.
29 And also on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
This prophecy was fulfilled in Acts 2:4
"2 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all [a]with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them [b]divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."
"14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only
the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: "
Peter then quoted Joel's Chapter 2
In the New Testament, this experience of Empowerment
This is the context of the event that happened on Pentacost, as recorded in Acts chapter 1:8, as to why it happened.
Jesus said YOU shall receive power after the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you shall be my witnesses.
The empowerment happened, and this gift was to the Jews first, Gentiles, and the world.
The History of the Church and The Acts of the Holy Spirit are seen throughout the Book of Acts, the Spirit poured out on women and Gentiles. This was a repeated event over and over again, and all who were filled with the Spirit in the New Testament spoke in tongues or prophesied, and it was documented.
How did they know they prophesied? How did they know they spoke in tongues?
What happened that caused the commotion recorded in Acts chapter 2?
Why did Paul teach about this gift and all of them in 1 Corinthians chapters 12 through 14?
You get stuck on Azusa Street and say it was a cult. How so? If I am in a cult, I can't be saved, right?
Are those in a cult able to be saved?
I want to hear your position because you can't have it both ways .
That is why you are a person of hate.
I am perfectly ok with you not accepting tongues as of today and still think you can be saved.
Yet your hate, which Jesus said, is a massive issue for those who do may qestion your own relationship with Christ.
I wait for your answer.
Thank you.
The error in your understanding is that you say it is (tongues ) that was taught "as a visible sign that someone is baptized in the Holy Spirit. "
You are willing to speak about the what of the teaching, not the Why it is taught.
In most incidents in scripture, When the Spirit of the Lord came upon a person in the Old Testament, they Prophesied
Numbers 11:25
1 Samuel 10:6-7
Joel 2:28
In the Old Testament, the Empowerment of the Holy Spirit, also known as the Spirit of the Living God and Spirit of God
only came upon Kings, Prophets, rulers, priests, and judges.
Mostly men, some women. All Hebrews or Jews with few exceptions.
Joel, which you like to use? Prophesied that :
“And it shall come to pass afterward
That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions.
29 And also on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
This prophecy was fulfilled in Acts 2:4
"2 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all [a]with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them [b]divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."
"14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only
the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: "
Peter then quoted Joel's Chapter 2
In the New Testament, this experience of Empowerment
This is the context of the event that happened on Pentacost, as recorded in Acts chapter 1:8, as to why it happened.
Jesus said YOU shall receive power after the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you shall be my witnesses.
The empowerment happened, and this gift was to the Jews first, Gentiles, and the world.
The History of the Church and The Acts of the Holy Spirit are seen throughout the Book of Acts, the Spirit poured out on women and Gentiles. This was a repeated event over and over again, and all who were filled with the Spirit in the New Testament spoke in tongues or prophesied, and it was documented.
How did they know they prophesied? How did they know they spoke in tongues?
What happened that caused the commotion recorded in Acts chapter 2?
Why did Paul teach about this gift and all of them in 1 Corinthians chapters 12 through 14?
You get stuck on Azusa Street and say it was a cult. How so? If I am in a cult, I can't be saved, right?
Are those in a cult able to be saved?
I want to hear your position because you can't have it both ways .
That is why you are a person of hate.
I am perfectly ok with you not accepting tongues as of today and still think you can be saved.
Yet your hate, which Jesus said, is a massive issue for those who do may qestion your own relationship with Christ.
I wait for your answer.
Thank you.
Ummm....while the book of Acts does record that all seemed to speak in tongues, Paul's letter(s) to the Corinthians who badly needed instruction, that not all will speak in tongues. Why do you keep insisting otherwise?
So if you do believe 'the word of God', then why do you change it to suit your own interpretation? I have the gift of tongues so my objections to some of what you write has nothing to do with whether or not I believe the gifts are still operative. I see how you change the wording in small little ways and this is a harmful practice.
It creates even more friction when someone objects to your criteria about the infilling of the Holy Spirit and that is totally your doing with regards to this thread.
We are sealed with the Holy Spirit when we first accept Christ. We do not automatically receive gifts with no knowledge of even knowing about them. Times are different. When Acts was written, people were new to the faith and there were not myriad beliefs around or people who are cessationists. No good can come out of telling people they are not saved if they do not speak in tongues.
The Bible says we are saved thought the sacrifice of Jesus...NOT blabbing in tongues.
So if you do believe 'the word of God', then why do you change it to suit your own interpretation? I have the gift of tongues so my objections to some of what you write has nothing to do with whether or not I believe the gifts are still operative. I see how you change the wording in small little ways and this is a harmful practice.
It creates even more friction when someone objects to your criteria about the infilling of the Holy Spirit and that is totally your doing with regards to this thread.
We are sealed with the Holy Spirit when we first accept Christ. We do not automatically receive gifts with no knowledge of even knowing about them. Times are different. When Acts was written, people were new to the faith and there were not myriad beliefs around or people who are cessationists. No good can come out of telling people they are not saved if they do not speak in tongues.
The Bible says we are saved thought the sacrifice of Jesus...NOT blabbing in tongues.
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So, here again is what you said and what scripture states. I think everyone here can read so your denial really serves only yourself for some reason. I don't know why you would do that when you tell everyone else they should believe what scripture states.
Following was my original response to that post and while I did respond to your other denials, the answer and scripture remains the same
Only he did say that. (post 138)
Now I desire you all to speak in tongues, but rather that you should prophesy. Now the one prophesying is greater than the one speaking in tongues, unless he should interpret, so that the church might receive edification. I Cor.14:5
and he also said what you note about from I Cor. 14:18
Saying he would prefer prophecy does not detract from what he said about tongues. As it is, when tongues are translated, he equals them to prophecy, which is what the 'unless' is there for.
In fact, saying he DESIRES all to speak in tongues, is stronger language than saying he 'wishes' it.
Plain as can be. I'm not going to bother with another response regarding your denials. People should just look to scripture for the truth.
Following was my original response to that post and while I did respond to your other denials, the answer and scripture remains the same
Only he did say that. (post 138)
Now I desire you all to speak in tongues, but rather that you should prophesy. Now the one prophesying is greater than the one speaking in tongues, unless he should interpret, so that the church might receive edification. I Cor.14:5
and he also said what you note about from I Cor. 14:18
Saying he would prefer prophecy does not detract from what he said about tongues. As it is, when tongues are translated, he equals them to prophecy, which is what the 'unless' is there for.
In fact, saying he DESIRES all to speak in tongues, is stronger language than saying he 'wishes' it.
Plain as can be. I'm not going to bother with another response regarding your denials. People should just look to scripture for the truth.