Did God plan for man to fall to prove something to Satan and his angels?
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Well,when you aren't able to properly engage in a discussion some whittle down that deficit so to make it simple for you. By posing a question that encapsulates the prior discussion topic and to then make it a simple matter of answering the point,yes or no.
You don't even do that.
When something is beyond your understanding there is no shame in admitting that.
You don't even do that.
When something is beyond your understanding there is no shame in admitting that.
Oh? Have you ever bothered to look at what it means in Hebrew?
1288
01288 barak {baw-rak'}
a primitive root; TWOT - 285; v
AV - bless 302, salute 5, curse 4, blaspheme 2, blessing 2, praised 2,
kneel down 2, congratulate 1, kneel 1, make to kneel 1, misc 8; 330
1) to bless, kneel
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to kneel
1a2) to bless
1b) (Niphal) to be blessed, bless oneself
1c) (Piel) to bless
1d) (Pual) to be blessed, be adored
1e) (Hiphil) to cause to kneel
1f) (Hithpael) to bless oneself
2) (TWOT) to praise, salute, curse
Now, the tense of the verb "curse" in this verse is Piel:
1c) (Piel) to bless
And thus the meaning of the verb is to "bless".
Piel usually expresses an "intensive" or "intentional" action as well as it also implies a repeated action meaning it is usually done more than once. In this case someone will “bless” God more than once.
OT:1288
barak (baw-rak'); a primitive root; to kneel; by implication to bless God (as an act of adoration), and (vice-versa) man (as a benefit); also (by euphemism) to curse (God or the king, as treason):
Lexicon:
"It is properly used of persons, and is transferred to curses and impious words against God." This specific definition for the word in question is found in Job 1:5, 1:11 and Job 2:5.
Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 2:5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
So what Satan literally said was:
"he will speak impious words against you"
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
im•pi•ous (im'pe-?s, im-pi'-) Pronunciation Key
adj.
1. Lacking reverence; not pious.
2. Lacking due respect or dutifulness: impious toward one's parents.
In today's terms it would mean Job spoke in disrespect to God, and about God.
Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
Charging God foolishly would be equal to cursing/speaking disrespect and impiously toward or about God.
Eventually Job would commit these bad things and sin.
1288
01288 barak {baw-rak'}
a primitive root; TWOT - 285; v
AV - bless 302, salute 5, curse 4, blaspheme 2, blessing 2, praised 2,
kneel down 2, congratulate 1, kneel 1, make to kneel 1, misc 8; 330
1) to bless, kneel
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to kneel
1a2) to bless
1b) (Niphal) to be blessed, bless oneself
1c) (Piel) to bless
1d) (Pual) to be blessed, be adored
1e) (Hiphil) to cause to kneel
1f) (Hithpael) to bless oneself
2) (TWOT) to praise, salute, curse
Now, the tense of the verb "curse" in this verse is Piel:
1c) (Piel) to bless
And thus the meaning of the verb is to "bless".
Piel usually expresses an "intensive" or "intentional" action as well as it also implies a repeated action meaning it is usually done more than once. In this case someone will “bless” God more than once.
OT:1288
barak (baw-rak'); a primitive root; to kneel; by implication to bless God (as an act of adoration), and (vice-versa) man (as a benefit); also (by euphemism) to curse (God or the king, as treason):
Lexicon:
"It is properly used of persons, and is transferred to curses and impious words against God." This specific definition for the word in question is found in Job 1:5, 1:11 and Job 2:5.
Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 2:5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
So what Satan literally said was:
"he will speak impious words against you"
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
im•pi•ous (im'pe-?s, im-pi'-) Pronunciation Key
adj.
1. Lacking reverence; not pious.
2. Lacking due respect or dutifulness: impious toward one's parents.
In today's terms it would mean Job spoke in disrespect to God, and about God.
Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
Charging God foolishly would be equal to cursing/speaking disrespect and impiously toward or about God.
Eventually Job would commit these bad things and sin.
Job blamed God for everything bad that happened to him and accused God of enjoying it etc.
Job 9:22 This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.
“God destroys the innocent along with the guilty.”
Job 9:23 If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent.
Job 9:24 The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?
“When a good person dies a accidental death, God sits back and laughs during the trial.
And who else but God blindfolds the judges, then lets the wicked take over the earth?“
This sounds like the convoluted universalism false doctrine to me, Gods elect are a remnant, a portion, and usually smaller . Isa 1:9
Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
Rom 11:5-7
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
Rom 11:5-7
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.