At what point in our salvation is the blood of Christ applied?

[mailmandan]

Hello Mailmandan.

Can you explain how you read the verse below which you did cite above.

Please specifically explain the relationship between, predestined and foreknowledge.

Romans 8:29
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that
He would be the firstborn among many brethren.

Romans 8:28 - And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

The Greek word for predestined is proorizó which means to foreordain, predetermine, mark out beforehand.

Strong's Greek: 4309. προορίζω (proorizó) -- To predestine, to foreordain

The Greek word for foreknew is proginóskó which means to know beforehand.

Strong's Greek: 4267. προγινώσκω (proginóskó) -- To foreknow, to know beforehand

Predestination and foreknowledge are interrelated. "Foreknowledge" generally refers to God’s prior knowledge of events and people. God is omniscient. "Predestination" describes God’s purposeful determination regarding those who are called, justified and will be glorified. Both terms highlight God's sovereignty and the assurance that He works out His plan in human history.

 

[studier]

Peter is simply saying that he is addressing elect strangers of a diaspora of Jews in the places listed, and that God already has a relationship with these elect, he has had a relatiuonship with them before now, a relationship which began when they were set apart into obedience and set apart into a sprinkling with Jesus' blood which cleansed them of their sins.

I guess others are still thinking about this post... It seems to be what happens when the discussion gets deeper into the Text than just using it to provide canned answers from this or that tradition.

 

[studier]

Romans 8:28 - And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

cc: @Inquisitor @PaulThomson

Who are those who love God?

 

[mailmandan]

cc: @Inquisitor @PaulThomson

Who are those who love God?

1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

 

[studier]

1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

There's a command to love one another here.

Then there' an explanation for the command.

Who are those who know God?

 

[Cameron143]

There's a command to love one another here.

Then there' an explanation for the command.

Who are those who know God?

Those to whom Jesus reveals Him.

 

[mailmandan]

There's a command to love one another here.

Then there' an explanation for the command.

Who are those who know God?

The command is an exhortation to love one another. We may not always love one another as much as we could or should (hence the command) yet everyone who loves (some exhibit it more than others) is born of God and knows God and those who do not love do not know God. Try not to over think it.

 

[studier]

The command is an exhortation to love one another. We may not always love one another as much as we could or should (hence the command) yet everyone who loves (some exhibit it more than others) is born of God and knows God and those who do not love do not know God. Try not to over think it.

How do we know who are those who love God?

 

[mailmandan]

How do we know who are those who love God?

Some folks seem to make it more obvious than others yet only God infallibly knows the hearts of all men.

 

[studier]

Some folks seem to make it more obvious than others yet only God infallibly knows the hearts of all men.

Who does God say love Him?

How does God define Love for Him?

 

[mailmandan]

Who does God say love Him?

How does God define Love for Him?

1 John 4:19 - We love, because He first loved us. 20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.

 

[studier]

1 John 4:19 - We love, because He first loved us. 20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.

Same questions:

Who does God say loves Him?

How does God define Love for Him?

 

[Mouse_Cheeks]

Christ’s blood has been SHED for the entire human race, but that doesn’t mean everyone has it. If that were true then no one would be lost because it’s the blood of Christ that removes our sins. And not everyone has had their sins removed.

Do it overlook those Christians who think they've had their sins removed but yet classify themselves as sinners still.

 

[mailmandan]

Same questions:

Who does God say loves Him?

How does God define Love for Him?

I already told you but you don't seem satisfied with 1 John 4:7-8 or 1 John 4:19-21. In 1 John 5:2-3, we read - By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

 

[sawdust]

Who are those who know God?

Those who have eternal life.

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life—that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you sent.

 

[mailmandan]

Those who have eternal life.

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life—that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you sent.

Amen! To know God is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him and not merely theoretical knowledge.

 

[studier]

I already told you but you don't seem satisfied with 1 John 4:7-8 or 1 John 4:19-21. In 1 John 5:2-3, we read - By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Don't you think 1John5:3 explains who loves God?

So, if we work this back, doesn't it explain from John's mindset who knows God and who is born from God?

And unless Paul thinks differently than John and teaches so, or unless Paul is teaching from a different angle in context about who it is who loves God, then all that way back to Rom8:28 the ones who God's Plan works for are for those who love God - those who keep God's commandments and His commandments are not burdensome [to them].

Keeping God's commandments is obedience language at minimum. And if we look at definitions for "keep" - tēreō - it has some other implications.

 

[studier]

Those who have eternal life.

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life—that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you sent.

So, this ties to post #337 especially since John wrote both documents.

 

[sawdust]

So, this ties to post #337 especially since John wrote both documents.

Yes, so how do we love our brother? You say we are to do it (and I agree) but how?

 

[studier]

Yes, so how do we love our brother? You say we are to do it (and I agree) but how?

By obeying God's commandments and putting together all the things that we're commanded and instructed to do re: love for one another that Jesus said was to be based upon His love for us. Part of the instruction is also how Paul describes love in 1Cor13 and how love for neighbor was explained in lev19:18 and how James describes this as he proceeds into faith+works in James 2, and... And to hopefully head off any attacks, we love by being and remaining in Christ in Spirit under grace by Faith/Obedience.