Making a case for women in leadership

[DavidLamb]

the church is the body of Christ yes?

Yes.

 

[GWH]

Everyone knows Pauls words on women pastors or rather a women speaking or teaching in the church and at face value this would seem pretty clear however the context of the verse has to do with the issues that was going on in the church at the time but what really got me thinking was this right here

Galatians 3:28 states that in Christ Jesus, there is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor male nor female, for all are one. This verse emphasizes the equality and unity of believers in Christ, transcending traditional social and cultural divisions. It highlights that these categories, while still present in human society,
are not determinants of value or significance within the Christian community and so this verse got me thinking if this is to be true then why do we take Pauls words at face value he would be contradicting the himself
unless of course he was speaking in regards to what was going on in the church at the time then it would make sense not to mention what about the women who he even baosted about who ministered to people such as Junia?

This one verse just doesn't make sense to me if indeed women are subhuman in the church and Jesus himself never forbid women of such a thing he never even addressed it
Would Jesus forbid the gospel being preached by a women?

This is a good topic, but perhaps the subtitle should be "Making a case for leadership as servanthood"
(Matt. 20:25-28, 23:1-12, cf. 18:3-4).

 

[Edify]

I have no problem with a woman being under her husband’s authority. That is certainly included in verse 3, but because of 1 Timothy 2 and what he says about usurping authority over men, I believe 1 Cor. 11:3 is the reason for that. Or do you think 1 Tim. 2 is not a general statement for all men. If so, then who is the man he is talking about in 1 Timothy 2?

Paul is talking about a husband. Surrounding context indicates family teaching.

 

[GWH]

Paul is talking about a husband. Surrounding context indicates family teaching.

Context indicates servanthood or mutual submission per Eph. 5:21.

 

[Edify]

Why are the so-called "women can't pastor" scriptures written to the churches in Corinth, Ephesus, & to Timothy?
Corinth was known for its worship of Aphrodite, while Ephesus was famous for the cult of Artemis (also known as Diana). Both goddesses had temples dedicated to them and were revered by the local populations. Since these temples dominated the cities, the roles of men & women were reversed. So when these people were saved, they brought their idolatrous habits into the church with them. Thus Paul's teachings specifically to them.
What about Timothy, then? Timothy was chosen by Paul to be over all the house-churches of Ephesus, so he had to be instructed on how to specifically minister to them.

 

[HeIsHere]

Dino, you haven't considered some things since you are a guy. me and secondtimesacharm work in the healthcare industry. guys don't make good nurses. orderly or caregivers not even watching the kids goes over well sometimes. they end up in the emergency room. I cant tell you how many incidents I've heard that involved a guy when there ant many of them in the healthcare industry to begin with other then doctors pharmacist.

It is the "temperament" of the person that is the consideration for whether they will be effective at their jobs, people within a certain gender with a certain temperament will be fine others not so much.

There are also many female nurse who are also not good caregivers, they do not have the right temperament.

 

[HeIsHere]

You need to check the Greek.

A surface level understanding of the words in scripture is usually the problem.

I was quite troubled many years back about how certain verses were being used to the extreme such that
women could not discuss scripture with a man but had to sit and listen, then I did the deep dive and I learned how the words were translated did not give the truest sense of the meaning of the words when compared to how they were used in other texts of that time period.

 

[Dino246]

Here is an incredible breakdown of the words in 1 Timothy 2:12:

https://terranwilliams.com/the-strangeness-of-1-timothy-212/

Thanks, sincerely. Some of the details warrant follow-up, but the theme is consistent with things I have read.

 

[Blain]

Yes.

well then it would stand to reason that cc is in fact a church as the church is not a building it is the body we may not be together in person but we are still a church

 

[Mem]

Church tradition has managed to disable half of its body. I do wonder how powerful she'd actually be if she were restored to full function and capacity in operation.

 

[Aaron56]

This issue always gets conflated with a Western idea of what leadership and authority looks like. In the typical modern church setting, after Constantine and Rome corrupted it, there are positions of leadership with no antecedent in the scriptures. Even in the structure of the meetings, many things go on that cannot be found in Biblical church history. The structured life of someone called out by God (church) is much simpler than what is practiced today.

 

[Maori_Aussie]

I didn't say they were gay I said the guys are not good caregivers and sometimes woman aren't either. Think of your childhood which of your parent were easier to annoy first? Who rose their voice first? It's not mother it's usually the dad with the belt. The mother is the comforter. Even though people are trying to change the order of in modern society. It's dysfunctional. It must be the devil that makes us humans want to change what God has made straight there we are trying to make cooked and what he made crooked we try to straighten. It's impossible if its not his will.

Church tradition has managed to disable half of its body. I do wonder how powerful she'd actually be if she were restored to full function and capacity in operation.

Not ALL Churches. In the 1860s the Salvation Army needed preachers prepared to preach temperance in London's East End. They had almost no financial support, and the alcohol industry was paying alcoholics (the Skeleton Army") to physically attack temperance teachers.
Several Salvationists were killed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeleton_Army
The Salvation Army started to use woman preachers, and women filled with the Holy Spirit knowledgeable in the Word stepped up and filled the ranks of preachers in the Salvation Army.
The Salvation Army ended its flyers advertising these preaching events "Come, drunk or sober".
Sisters in Christ; pray! And if the Holy Spirit guides you, come on over.

 

[Maori_Aussie]

Not ALL Churches. In the 1860s the Salvation Army needed preachers prepared to preach temperance in London's East End. They had almost no financial support, and the alcohol industry was paying alcoholics (the Skeleton Army") to physically attack temperance teachers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeleton_Army
The Salvation Army started to use woman preachers, and women filled with the Holy Spirit knowledgeable in the Word stepped up and filled the ranks of preachers in the Salvation Army.
The Salvation Army ended its flyers advertising these preaching events "Come, drunk or sober".
Sisters in Christ; pray! And if the Holy Spirit guides you, come on over.

DELETE: "Several Salvationists were killed."

 

[Maori_Aussie]

This issue always gets conflated with a Western idea of what leadership and authority looks like. In the typical modern church setting, after Constantine and Rome corrupted it, there are positions of leadership with no antecedent in the scriptures. Even in the structure of the meetings, many things go on that cannot be found in Biblical church history. The structured life of someone called out by God (church) is much simpler than what is practiced today.

Correct me if I am wrong but the bible has a role "Overseer", but no role of Priest in the NT. And as I see it the role of Bishop has evolved out of the unbiblical role of Priest. If we are to be biblically correct, there are zero 'intermediaries' between the Believer and God.

 

[Cameron143]

Correct me if I am wrong but the bible has a role "Overseer", but no role of Priest in the NT. And as I see it the role of Bishop has evolved out of the unbiblical role of Priest. If we are to be biblically correct, there are zero 'intermediaries' between the Believer and God.

While all Christians have direct access to the Father, God has put some in positions over the flock for the edification of all. Peter is a good example...feed my sheep.

 

[Maori_Aussie]

While all Christians have direct access to the Father, God has put some in positions over the flock for the edification of all. Peter is a good example...feed my sheep.

While all Christians have direct access to the Father, God has put some in positions over the flock for the edification of all. Peter is a good example...feed my sheep.

IMHO the shepherd is not 'over' the flock. The good shepherd leads the flock with his voice.
And the good shepherd never lives in a palace, nor is a 'prince' of the Church....
Constantine sure did a job on us....
God, I miss Peter. God, please send us a shepherd like Peter the fisherman.

 

[Cameron143]

IMHO the shepherd is not 'over' the flock. The good shepherd leads the flock with his voice.
And the good shepherd never lives in a palace, nor is a 'prince' of the Church....
Constantine sure did a job on us....
God, I miss Peter. God, please send us a shepherd like Peter the fisherman.

Peter was an overseer of the flock. It was a position of authority within the church. Every local body of believers should have at least one overseer.
As far as a palace or a title, who cares? Do they fulfill their appointed task is all that matters.

 

[Maori_Aussie]

Peter was an overseer of the flock. It was a position of authority within the church. Every local body of believers should have at least one overseer.
As far as a palace or a title, who cares? Do they fulfill their appointed task is all that matters.

Commissioners of the Salvation Army live in ordinary homes and drive ordinary cars.
Commissioners of the Salvation Army work in ordinary offices and fulfill their appointed task as Overseer.
A retired Commissioner (btw-female) attends my church and sits amongst the other Believers.
When I have time, I should invite her to have a coffee after church. I might have to book as there is a line for that.

 

[Cameron143]

Commissioners of the Salvation Army live in ordinary homes and drive ordinary cars.
Commissioners of the Salvation Army work in ordinary offices and fulfill their appointed task as Overseer.
A retired Commissioner (btw-female) attends my church and sits amongst the other Believers.
When I have time, I should invite her to have a coffee after church. I might have to book as there is a line for that.

Her position matters to you, not to me. Only that her appointment is divine.

 

[Maori_Aussie]

Her position matters to you, not to me. Only that her appointment is divine.

Basically I am pointing to the hypocrisy of those who criticise the election of female overseers as unbiblical, but who would defend the unbiblical practices of our "shepherds" somehow "feeding the lambs" while living like Princes in Palaces...
Personally, I am 100% confident looking Jesus in the eye and saying I accepted the administrative authority of that humble woman because I believed that the Holy Spirit was moving powerfully within her. So, help me God!