Concerning the gift of tongues

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Jan 18, 2016
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There's a little more to it. But I think God knows that some of His children will be really uncomfortable around that so He administers to them in less spectacular ways like you describe. That's why it doesn't really bother me that some people don't want spiritual gifts in their church as long as they don't try to discourage everyone else in other churches.

It's not about constant proof. It's about letting the Holy Spirit do what He wants according to what it says in the Bible and not restrict Him.

Oh I should post some videos for anyone who want to learn more about speaking in tongues. I have two right now: The Handsome Version and the Easy Visual Version!


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I don't know of anyone that wants to "restrict" what the Spirit can, and will do in the body of believers.

I believe that if believers pray to receive the gifts that the Spirit will give, that they will receive what they NEED... not what they WANT.

"11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He [l]wills."

I truly WANTED to experience speaking in tongues, but was not given that gift. I'm ok with that, as I don't NEED it to fill some void in my walk with Jesus. I don't need to SEE it, to prove to me that the Spirit is in and among us.

If others truly need that, then I'm certain the Spirit is willing to provide it. But, to say that EVERY believer "if they are truly baptized in the Spirit" should speak in tongues is completely un-scriptural.... and it can, and will lead to feelings of inadequacy in new believers, or it will encourage them to manufacture their own "tongue language" so they can prove their acceptance.

All because of the false emphasis placed on the LEAST of the spiritual gifts.... it's all about the "show".....
 
Feb 17, 2023
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I don't know of anyone that wants to "restrict" what the Spirit can, and will do in the body of believers.

I believe that if believers pray to receive the gifts that the Spirit will give, that they will receive what they NEED... not what they WANT.

"11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He [l]wills."

I truly WANTED to experience speaking in tongues, but was not given that gift. I'm ok with that, as I don't NEED it to fill some void in my walk with Jesus. I don't need to SEE it, to prove to me that the Spirit is in and among us.

If others truly need that, then I'm certain the Spirit is willing to provide it. But, to say that EVERY believer "if they are truly baptized in the Spirit" should speak in tongues is completely un-scriptural.... and it can, and will lead to feelings of inadequacy in new believers, or it will encourage them to manufacture their own "tongue language" so they can prove their acceptance.

All because of the false emphasis placed on the LEAST of the spiritual gifts.... it's all about the "show".....

I don't recall ever saying that everyone should have it? The Bible clearly says not everyone will receive it.

Also a lot of people who don't have it often accuse others who do have it that we're using it for "show". But oh well, if it makes those people feel better for not having it. :giggle:


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Jan 18, 2016
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I don't recall ever saying that everyone should have it?
No, I don't remember you saying that, either.

Other people on here have said it, and I was answering in generalities... about tongue speaking specifically.... Statements like "every believer is able to have every spiritual gift, all they have to do is ask".... making it appear that if you DON'T have a specific gift, you simply don't want it, or you don't believe it enough....
 
Feb 17, 2023
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No, I don't remember you saying that, either.

Other people on here have said it, and I was answering in generalities... about tongue speaking specifically.... Statements like "every believer is able to have every spiritual gift, all they have to do is ask".... making it appear that if you DON'T have a specific gift, you simply don't want it, or you don't believe it enough....

Oh gosh, I actually know a few churches that say you have speak to in tongues to show you're saved. They are AWFUL to put so much pressure on new Christians who just want to be saved! So yeah, a lot of fake speaking in tongues in those churches.....


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Jan 18, 2016
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Consider the fact that the detailed conversion accounts In Scripture reveal 100% spoke in tongues upon receiving the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.
This brings me to state what I believe...

I believe that when we accept Jesus and are baptized, we receive the indwelling Holy Spirit of God... as Peter taught at Pentecost... which was the founding of Jesus' body, the church.

I do not believe that EVERY account of someone accepting Jesus and being baptized resulted in tongue speaking...

I do believe that it frequently did.... in the first century. This was the foundation of the church, when signs were needed to prove to unbelievers that there truly was God's power present...

I believe that the first century churches DID have prophecy, and tongues, all to enhance the worship.. to edify the believers. Remember, there was no New Testament at that time, so in the assemblies, any sort of teaching about Jesus and his works was done through witness, or inspired spoken word.. (prophecy)

I believe tongues could be, and were used to emphasize the truth of those teachings.... but only if someone could truly interpret what was said.... otherwise, it was just noise.... (clanging cymbal).

I also believe that since we now have the canon of scripture... the inspired New Testament, that prophesies are not needed... everything in a "prophecy" should be simply emphasizing scripture.... otherwise, it is adding to, or changing scripture, and is not of God. The assembly can get everything it needs from scripture... and any "prophecy" that happens might simply be explanation, or commentary on the written word. Nothing else is needed. I think that all the scriptures that talk about the usefulness of the sign gifts in scripture, were describing what was beneficial to the first century church.

I also believe that now that churches are established, and generally speaking, most people understand the working of the Spirit, there really is no spiritual need for public tongue-speaking in the assembly. In your private prayer life, whether at home, or in the assembly, if it helps you, and you have the gift given you by the Spirit... absolutely. Do whatever enhances your spiritual growth.... but do not be a disruption to the assembly.

So, I suppose I believe that, for the most part (not absolutely exclusively) that the "sign gifts" are not needed in the established assembly. Other gifts, of course, are needed and present, such as wisdom, the ability to teach, understanding.... the less "flashy" gifts are, and should be present. But to state that our assemblies NEED, and MUST have all the sign gifts, to me, is not correct.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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No, I don't remember you saying that, either.

Other people on here have said it, and I was answering in generalities... about tongue speaking specifically.... Statements like "every believer is able to have every spiritual gift, all they have to do is ask".... making it appear that if you DON'T have a specific gift, you simply don't want it, or you don't believe it enough....

I would like to say that in the word of God Paul asked the disciples at Ephesus
and he said :


19 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”

So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”

3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”

So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”

4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now the men were about twelve in all.

This work of empowerment was significant enough that Paul asked them if they have received The Baptism in the Holy Spirit also known as The Baptism of Jesus which Jogn said in the Gospel of John chapter 1: 33


Also, Jesus told the disciples to go and wait until they have received power from on high Luke 24:49. Jesus noted that they would receive power in Acts 1:8, which is the last instruction given to them before he ascended.

So based on scripture, I say that yes, everyone should, but God is not going to force one to receive. That doesn't mean all have to speak in tongues But I do see tongues and Prophesying in context to one who has been baptized in the Holy Spirit.
 
Jan 18, 2016
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Also, Jesus told the disciples to go and wait until they have received power from on high Luke 24:49. Jesus noted that they would receive power in Acts 1:8, which is the last instruction given to them before he ascended.
Yes.... the apostles.
He was predicting what happened at Pentecost.

So based on scripture, I say that yes, everyone should,
I understand what you believe, and I respect your opinions.... but I think you are incorrect in saying that every believer is to have that gift...

27 Now you are Christ’s body, and individually parts of it. 28 And God has [u]appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then [v]miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, and various kinds of tongues. 29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of [w]miracles, are they? 30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts.

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. 36 As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” 38 And he ordered that the chariot stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing.

no tongues mentioned....

41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand [ar]souls. 42 They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to [as]prayer.

no tongues mentioned....

I think that it DID happen on several occasions, but not in every conversion account...
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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Yes.... the apostles.
He was predicting what happened at Pentecost.



I understand what you believe, and I respect your opinions.... but I think you are incorrect in saying that every believer is to have that gift...

27 Now you are Christ’s body, and individually parts of it. 28 And God has [u]appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then [v]miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, and various kinds of tongues. 29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of [w]miracles, are they? 30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts.

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. 36 As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” 38 And he ordered that the chariot stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing.

no tongues mentioned....

41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand [ar]souls. 42 They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to [as]prayer.

no tongues mentioned....

I think that it DID happen on several occasions, but not in every conversion account...

I want to clarify that the 1cor chapter 12 you have used is for the church setting for the BODY of Christ. Yet there is personal use of the gifts for the edification of the person in the church setting, and Paul makes that clear. Paul said to all.

Desire spiritual gifts and seek to do the work of a (a) apostle or bishop. her also said 1tim 3:1
Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task.


The empowerment of thr Holy Spirit Jesus said is to be a witness of HIM. Did Jesus doing any work in his earthly ministery without the leading of the Holy Spirit? No. Why are we any better than our Lord?
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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I want to clarify that the 1cor chapter 12 you have used is for the church setting for the BODY of Christ. Yet there is personal use of the gifts for the edification of the person in the church setting, and Paul makes that clear. Paul said to all.

Desire spiritual gifts and seek to do the work of a (a) apostle or bishop. her also said 1tim 3:1
Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task.


The empowerment of thr Holy Spirit Jesus said is to be a witness of HIM. Did Jesus doing any work in his earthly ministery without the leading of the Holy Spirit? No. Why are we any better than our Lord?
The argument that the Enuch did not speak tongues or witness any empowerment was because the Spirit took Philp away.

Also Nothing is mentioned about Paul in Acts 9 Paul who had hands laid on him:

17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord [d]Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.

No mention of Tongues here either BUT! Paul said in 1cor chapter 14:18

18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all;

So just because it was not noted with the rnouch it was notes with Paul later and other too.
 
Jan 18, 2016
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The argument that the Enuch did not speak tongues or witness any empowerment was because the Spirit took Philp away.
ahhh.... I think that may be a bit of a stretch... if it was that important, or "guaranteed", it should have mentioned that the eunuch spoke in tongues and rejoiced...
Either way, not a big deal...
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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ahhh.... I think that may be a bit of a stretch... if it was that important, or "guaranteed", it should have mentioned that the eunuch spoke in tongues and rejoiced...
Either way, not a big deal...
I think you hold something that could not be recorded as it ststess Philp was taken immediately and As stated Paul received yet it was not recorded. I disagree that it is a stretch when the text says Philp was carried away. Also, Acts 2, 10, 19 1cor, Chapters 12 through 14 have already established a normative approach. You have one verse and one situation to go from, so make it descriptive, not Normitive. You want to hang your hat on the Enuch please do so. But Paul has no record of it either who is more authortative of Enuch's experience or Paul's instructions in 1cor chapters 12 through 14.
 
Jan 18, 2016
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I think you hold something that could not be recorded as it ststess Philp was taken immediately and As stated Paul received yet it was not recorded. I disagree that it is a stretch when the text says Philp was carried away. Also, Acts 2, 10, 19 1cor, Chapters 12 through 14 have already established a normative approach. You have one verse and one situation to go from, so make it descriptive, not Normitive. You want to hang your hat on the Enuch please do so. But Paul has no record of it either who is more authortative of Enuch's experience or Paul's instructions in 1cor chapters 12 through 14.
I'm not hanging my hat on anything in this. I'm just trying to be observant, fairly.
I don't need to prove that "all" conversions included tongue speaking.... the FIRST conversions of 3000 did not mention it, and like you said, Paul's conversion did not mention it..... perhaps Paul didn't receive tongues until he had hands laid on him by Peter, or one of the other apostles... we just don't know. And.... it doesn't matter.

ALL of these stories were of the 1st century church, and if you read with some understanding you would at least acknowledge that the 1st century church was in the "formative" phase...

Look objectively at the church today..... do we need prophecy? Not really... we have scripture. What could possibly be prophesied that is not already covered in scripture?

Do we need tongues? (for assembly edification) Not really.... unless there are unbelievers that would only accept if they "saw" proof... but tongues as proof to an unbeliever would have to be something that would "prove" it to them.... such as someone speaking in an actual language that they do not know.... something that can be proven to be true..... glossolalia, even with someone claiming to be an interpreter is simply babble to an unbeliever... it has to be something demonstrably true....

Miraculous healings? That would be nice if it was an actual "provable" healing, instead of some vague "my migraine immediately went away" kind of thing. Instead, we see many, many un-explainable healings as answers to prayers... miraculous? Yes, but not done by individuals as a "sign gift" ..... they are answers to fervent, righteous prayers from believers....

Do I believe the Spirit works in the church today? Absolutely.... however he sees the need... it's not up to us to decide what is needed... it is God through His Spirit that makes that call...
 
Feb 15, 2014
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I also find it funny that you would say that to me but said nothing to him about his attack on me an other pentacostels that was not crossing the line? Again I asked him to provide a biblical position what he provided was only Joel chapter 2. And I called him out on that then he sais;

"Yes, you explained, but not convinced.
It is not new that people and groups exegeting the scripture to defend their own made believe and doctrines. "


No answer to Acts chp 2-3 Peter speaking about Joel and saying what Joel said. There is no answer to John chapter 14 and the Old Testament scriptures given to him on the Holy Spirit. he does not want to discuss. And I will not allow anyone to attack young brother and sister in the Lord who came to this site with an honest post. You know how long you and many others here have been at this site and the person who stated this post is pretty new.
Well, I showed you in the past the bible verses. You just ignore them. So for what reason it makes sense to discuss further with you? You have a different way to interprete the bible, this I have to accept., but not to agree. I have also often express my questions about the pentecostal and charismatic teachings, were I got no proper answers for. So discussion makes no sense.Because every side will stay on his understanding/view.
If you think you are right and correct, then go go ahead.
Maby I may give you an advise? If you criticize then separate the object from the person. I dont hate anybody, even not you. But I hate false teaching, because it destroys people.
Btw I am on CC since 2014.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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I'm not hanging my hat on anything in this. I'm just trying to be observant, fairly.
I don't need to prove that "all" conversions included tongue speaking.... the FIRST conversions of 3000 did not mention it, and like you said, Paul's conversion did not mention it..... perhaps Paul didn't receive tongues until he had hands laid on him by Peter, or one of the other apostles... we just don't know. And.... it doesn't matter.

ALL of these stories were of the 1st century church, and if you read with some understanding you would at least acknowledge that the 1st century church was in the "formative" phase...

Look objectively at the church today..... do we need prophecy? Not really... we have scripture. What could possibly be prophesied that is not already covered in scripture?

Do we need tongues? (for assembly edification) Not really.... unless there are unbelievers that would only accept if they "saw" proof... but tongues as proof to an unbeliever would have to be something that would "prove" it to them.... such as someone speaking in an actual language that they do not know.... something that can be proven to be true..... glossolalia, even with someone claiming to be an interpreter is simply babble to an unbeliever... it has to be something demonstrably true....

Miraculous healings? That would be nice if it was an actual "provable" healing, instead of some vague "my migraine immediately went away" kind of thing. Instead, we see many, many un-explainable healings as answers to prayers... miraculous? Yes, but not done by individuals as a "sign gift" ..... they are answers to fervent, righteous prayers from believers....

Do I believe the Spirit works in the church today? Absolutely.... however he sees the need... it's not up to us to decide what is needed... it is God through His Spirit that makes that call...
I'm asking you to prove all just understand that context of this topic you and I are discussing has more to say. Yet you can still disagree:). As far as the 3000 go that was amircle event the church was just bornon that day there was no teaching other then Jesus is rthw promised One and He died and rose again. The church started this day but was not fully ready in Acts 2.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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Well, I showed you in the past the bible verses. You just ignore them. So for what reason it makes sense to discuss further with you? You have a different way to interprete the bible, this I have to accept., but not to agree. I have also often express my questions about the pentecostal and charismatic teachings, were I got no proper answers for. So discussion makes no sense.Because every side will stay on his understanding/view.
If you think you are right and correct, then go go ahead.
Maby I may give you an advise? If you criticize then separate the object from the person. I dont hate anybody, even not you. But I hate false teaching, because it destroys people.
Btw I am on CC since 2014.

No I did not and you are not truthful. Each time you troll I have presented by Postion Biblically. You have not. As even in this response, you have to use a biblical text. I provided 1cor chapters 12 through 14, Acts 1: 8 John cchpater 14 through 16 and Eph 4:11. You still speak about Charismatics and pentacostels in this very post. You mention them more than do and I am Pentacostel Minister. I know how long you have been here, and clearly you think so. My statement that there are those here who are relatively new was not speaking about you. FYI, I reread it. I said who posted on this thread is relatively new.
Yes you do hate. It's clear in your post that there are insults, mocking, and scoffing. many here give you a pass because of a language barrier I did that in the beginning too but you are old enough to know better so. I will treat as such. I have asked you to have live discussion you coward out of that make excuses.