Concerning the gift of tongues

[TrustandObey]

And yet you cannot disprove it just make snarky comments, the verse Dino provided clearly shows the gift is still ongoing and you have yet to be able to disprove it just admit that you have nothing to counter it instead of comparing this discussion to bigfoot who does not exist
by all means prove us wrong if you can

And yet you cannot prove that their claims are supernatural. There is nothing in their claims that suggest a connection between 1st century tongues and the glossolalia of today. When you can prove that they are the same let me know.

BTW, I was not comparing bigfoot to glossolalia and you know it.

I was comparing the line of reasoning for the belief of each claim.

 

[CS1]

And yet you cannot prove that their claims are supernatural. There is nothing in their claims that suggest a connection between 1st century tongues and the glossolalia of today. When you can prove that they are the same let me know.

BTW, I was not comparing bigfoot to glossolalia and you know it.

I was comparing the line of reasoning for the belief of each claim.

what claims are supernatural? FYI glossoliia is a Greek word used to describe speaking in Tongues which is seenin the Word of God .

It is a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit, as Jesus, Peter, and Paul said. What is your point?

 

[Blain]

And yet you cannot prove that their claims are supernatural. There is nothing in their claims that suggest a connection between 1st century tongues and the glossolalia of today. When you can prove that they are the same let me know.

BTW, I was not comparing bigfoot to glossolalia and you know it.

I was comparing the line of reasoning for the belief of each claim.

So as I said before no one claimed to have the manifestation of the tongues as in the early church you won't see tongues of fire or anything what they did claim is to have the gift of tongues which is supernatural as God himself is supernatural but you won't see tongues of fire on anyone
What I don't understand is how you reject any supernatural element when the God you claim to serve is himself supernatural. and as for proving it how exactly would you expect us to being on an online forum? if they were face to face then maybe but online? how do you expect to prove it? and the discussion is not even about that the debate is about whether they are for today or not but your hung up on the tongues as seen in acts and proving that the claims made which they were not are the same as that particular manifestation

But what they did say is that they do operate in the gift of tongues and yes it is supernatural as God himself is supernaturaland they claimed it was the holy spirit in them that does it so therefore it is in fact supernatural otherwise it would just be them speaking gibberish by their own accord and not God

So just to be as clear as possible no one claimed to have the manifestation as in the books of acts they claimed to have the gift of tongues but not the physical manifestation of tongues of fire which are not the same thing and yes it is supernatural otherwise it would not be God speaking it would be their own babblke of nonsense

Now again this discusssion is about whether the gifts are for today not proving claims made and if it is about proving claims made then how do you propose we do that?

 

[Wansvic]

I wish people would read the footnote for MK 16:9-20, which indicates drinking poison, etc. is problematic.

It's not problematic at all. The scripture provides insight concerning God protection in the event of unintentional consumption.

 

[Wansvic]

We can do NOTHING without the Spirit. The idea a person does not receive the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation is not accurate.

Everything a believer does that is divine good, is through the Spirit. If a person is void of the Spirit they can do NOTHING but believe to be saved.

I can get dunked in a tank all day long and for years And it means nothing. But if I know How to walk in the Spirit and be filled with the Spirit......It is a righteous good deed.

Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed? (Acts 19:1-7)

 

[Wansvic]

I would like to make a case that Spirit Baptism that is referred to 1 Cor. 12:13

But I do have a question for you, my brother/sister: What happens to a Muslim who receives Christ, and then goes home to his parents, and his father finds that he has converted to Christianity and kills the new convert? Does he go to hell or is he saved?

When does the Word of God say Christ is received?

 

[Wansvic]

I would love to hear of it personally. What are your solid references?

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/post-apostolic-speaking-in-tongues-1.218810/
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...ic-speaking-in-tongues-2.218811/#post-5490779

 

[Wansvic]

Church history???

Is the New Testament not enough?

It very well should be. It certainly is for me. However, I was addressing the misconception that speaking in tongues only resurfaced in the 1900's.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/post-apostolic-speaking-in-tongues-1.218810/
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/post-apostolic-speaking-in-tongues-2.218811/

 

[GWH]

I think it’s beautiful that Jesus Christ told us that the Father gives the Holy Spirit to those that ask.

I also think it’s beautiful that Jesus Christ told us that if anyone is thirsty, come to Him and He will give us living waters that we thirst no more but there will be a well springing up inside of us and out of our innermost being rivers of living water will flow. Beautiful!

What must be asked is "What must I do to be saved?" (Matt. 7:7, Acts 16:30)
The answer is "Accept Jesus as Messiah and Lord." (Acts 16:31, Col. 2:6, John 6:29)
The result is that Christ's HS indwells believers, (Rev. 3:20, John 14:18, Rom. 5:5)
baptizing them into the spiritual body of Christ, (1Cor. 12:30, Rom. 8:9)
producing loving fruit as they persevere in saving faith (Matt. 7:16-17, Gal. 5:22-23, 1 Thes, 1:3)
and motivating them to grow toward moral maturity. (Phil. 3:7-20, Heb. 6:1-12)

 

[Wansvic]

I agree with you. I don't like that they believe that it is a sign of someone being saved. That is nowhere in the Bible. The Bible actually says that not everybody who gets saved will be able to speak in tongues, which is perfectly fine.


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Scripture records the manifestation of tongues for different purposes:

1. The initial indwelling of the Holy Spirit resulted in 100% of the individuals speaking in tongues. (Acts 2:4, 10:44-45, 19:6)

2. Personal prayer. (1 Cor 14:2, 4, 28)

3. Spiritual gift of tongues accompanied by the gift of interpretation for public messages. Not everyone will be used to operate in this gift. (1 Cor. 14:5, 12:30)

 

[Wansvic]

Not all Pentecostal groups believe that--I don't know how many do? But even treating fellow Christians as "2nd class citizens" for not speaking in tongues is an "evil" of sorts.

Of course, there are those dispensationalists who dismiss all spiritual gifts and relegate them to the age of the Apostles. They may rightly be criticized, I should think?

We are commanded to share the truth in love. The ultimate goal is to help, not hurt anyone.

Consider the fact that the detailed conversion accounts In Scripture reveal 100% spoke in tongues upon receiving the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:4, 33, 10:44-45, 19:6)

 

[hornetguy]

Oh dear, I think I‘ve stirred up a hornet’s nest! Lol!

Before you get really upset, I never said “practice.”

Stir up means refresh, something that has been neglected, stagnant…. stir up the gift of tongues and let it flow!

Someone else had said to "practice" it, and that is what I had responded to... I completely agree that a refreshing of our intensity and desire to serve God is needed frequently. Paul understood the human spirit, and how we all have ups and downs... he even spoke of his own mixed feelings and actions, and I think he was warning/comforting Timothy, saying, "don't forget what you have been ordained to do... don't let 'life' get you down"....

.... and, I'm not in the least upset. Speaking in tongues is really not worth alienating brothers and sisters over... the least of the spiritual gifts.... we all have our own path to travel in following Jesus..

 

[shittim]

decades of praying in the Spirit, no better, faster, stronger way to stay in Him and receive His blessings.
Certainly supernatural as God is supernatural.

 

[hornetguy]

It's to edify the church. There are clear instructions on how it and other gifts of the Holy Spirit are to be used in public assembly:

1 Corinthians 14:26 What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.

29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30 And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32 The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.


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That is a wonderful description of the first century church assemblies...
What do you think the purpose of "revelations" or "prophesies" were? What would your understanding of a "revelation" be? Or, a prophecy?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

That is a wonderful description of the first century church assemblies...
What do you think the purpose of "revelations" or "prophesies" were? What would your understanding of a "revelation" be? Or, a prophecy?

When someone had knowledge or a word of prophecy or interpretation at my old church it was mainly to refresh us and encourage us to grow from strength to strength (basically not to tire or get lethargic about living for God), but also if there is a general need to convict - if we're actually becoming lukewarm or distracted from our focus on God in general, then there will be words of admonishment. Either way, they don't conflict with the Bible and both encouragement and admonishment really did encourage/refresh and convict/benefit the church greatly!


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[TrustandObey]

you won't see tongues of fire

Because tongues of fire are rather hard to fake.

You and Dino246 have been pushing that Romans 11:29 means that nothing God has gifted man can be revoked. But the hard things to fake such as healing the lame or giving sight to the blind seem to be of little interest to them. I wonder why.

If tongues of fire, healings and the raising of the dead were of the New Testament and Romans 11:29 is proof text of their not being revoked where are they now?

I most certainly believe in a supernatural God. That does not mean I believe in individual claims of ongoing supernatural phenomenon.

Anyone can claim that their words are supernaturally inspired (tongues).

Anyone can claim that they understand those words (interpret).

Anyone can claim that God gave them a message to share (prophesy).

But who is claiming to give sight to the blind?

Who is claiming to heal the lame?

Who is claiming to raise the dead?

Be reasonable, can you not see a pattern?

 

[hornetguy]

I think it’s beautiful that Jesus Christ told us that the Father gives the Holy Spirit to those that ask.

When someone had knowledge or a word of prophecy or interpretation at my old church it was mainly to refresh us and encourage us to grow from strength to strength (basically not to tire or get lethargic about living for God), but also if there is a general need to convict - if we're actually becoming lukewarm or distracted from our focus on God in general, then there will be words of admonishment. Either way, they don't conflict with the Bible and both encouragement and admonishment really did encourage/refresh and convict/benefit the church greatly!


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I see that all the time in my church family.... generally not in the assembly, where we have a designated speaker give a lesson from scripture, but we have others that will be in front of the assembled body to read a scripture and comment, or to lead prayers, especially prior to partaking in communion, the Lord's supper....
Generally we do not look at this as a "miraculous" gift of the Spirit, but more in line with Spiritual gifts that are given to believers as is needed for that particular body of believers.
We have people that are "gifted" with being good listeners, and others that are gifted with being very wise in making decisions, and counseling others in times of struggle...
We have people that worship/sing with hands raised, eyes closed, completely immersed in it... are they praying in tongues? I don't know, but if they are, it is between them and God.
Nobody needs to "see" miraculous tongues being spoken.... that is a sign for unbelievers.... and I believe it was used only at "foundation" moments in church history... I do not think it is "needed" in our worship service.

If a believer was trying to start a "church" somewhere, where there were no believers, then miraculous tongues could serve as "proof" that the Spirit is present... but if a body of believers feels the need to have constant proof that the Spirit is there, then I would have questions about their maturity and understanding...

 

[Blain]

Because tongues of fire are rather hard to fake.

You and Dino246 have been pushing that Romans 11:29 means that nothing God has gifted man can be revoked. But the hard things to fake such as healing the lame or giving sight to the blind seem to be of little interest to them. I wonder why.

If tongues of fire, healings and the raising of the dead were of the New Testament and Romans 11:29 is proof text of their not being revoked where are they now?

I most certainly believe in a supernatural God. That does not mean I believe in individual claims of ongoing supernatural phenomenon.

Anyone can claim that their words are supernaturally inspired (tongues).

Anyone can claim that they understand those words (interpret).

Anyone can claim that God gave them a message to share (prophesy).

But who is claiming to give sight to the blind?

Who is claiming to heal the lame?

Who is claiming to raise the dead?

Be reasonable, can you not see a pattern?

Well what do you think Romans 11:29 means then? and yes anyone can claim such things and I am not saying there are plenty of fakes out there but there are the real thing as well just not as common why is that? because we live in a time of sin and little faith not to mention the gifts are already so misunderstood and people think they have them when they don't.

I don't have the gift of healing or anything I don't have the ability to raise the dead by any means but I do have the gift of prophecy and I use it for what it is meant to to do to encourage and build up the body that is why I was gifted the real thing many want the gift but fail to use it for what it is for or just plain don't have it and that is why you see all these false prophets everywhere.

But for you to think the gifts arre just gone means you don't use what you have been gifted or at least could have been gifted the holy spirit is inside us yes? he is supernatural therefore the gifts we are given are supernatural and no one who has them operates them of their own accord, but if you can show me where in scripture it says they have ceased then maybe I will change my mind but it doesn't say that in scripture and scripture is more solid than your own opinion

So if Romans 11:29 is to be taken seriously then why do you not believe it? or if you think it means something else then please tell me what you think it means otherwise your just rejecting scripture you don't agree with therefore rejecting God's word itself we cannot pick and choose which scripture is true because the word of God is truth no matter what

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I see that all the time in my church family.... generally not in the assembly, where we have a designated speaker give a lesson from scripture, but we have others that will be in front of the assembled body to read a scripture and comment, or to lead prayers, especially prior to partaking in communion, the Lord's supper....
Generally we do not look at this as a "miraculous" gift of the Spirit, but more in line with Spiritual gifts that are given to believers as is needed for that particular body of believers.
We have people that are "gifted" with being good listeners, and others that are gifted with being very wise in making decisions, and counseling others in times of struggle...
We have people that worship/sing with hands raised, eyes closed, completely immersed in it... are they praying in tongues? I don't know, but if they are, it is between them and God.
Nobody needs to "see" miraculous tongues being spoken.... that is a sign for unbelievers.... and I believe it was used only at "foundation" moments in church history... I do not think it is "needed" in our worship service.

If a believer was trying to start a "church" somewhere, where there were no believers, then miraculous tongues could serve as "proof" that the Spirit is present... but if a body of believers feels the need to have constant proof that the Spirit is there, then I would have questions about their maturity and understanding...

There's a little more to it. But I think God knows that some of His children will be really uncomfortable around that so He administers to them in less spectacular ways like you describe. That's why it doesn't really bother me that some people don't want spiritual gifts in their church as long as they don't try to discourage everyone else in other churches.

It's not about constant proof. It's about letting the Holy Spirit do what He wants according to what it says in the Bible and not restrict Him.

Oh I should post some videos for anyone who want to learn more about speaking in tongues. I have two right now: The Handsome Version and the Easy Visual Version!


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[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Hi guys! As I have mentioned before, I said that I would post a couple of videos that explain speaking in tongues really well!

Here's the Handsome Version:

What does the BIBLE REALLY say about SPEAKING IN TONGUES?

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This is the Easy to Understand Visual Version:

What Is The GIFT OF TONGUES?

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They're both pretty good so watch either one of them or watch them both!


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