Exactly so often people look at the verses were paul speaks of women not speaking or being over men when that is all they focus on they don't read and take into consideration the entire chapter and not just that chapter but the chapters before and after where paul was addresing all kinds of issue in the church
Making a case for women in leadership
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Right even before the church women have been used in positions of authority I forgot about all of them, I had a vague memory of it but couldn't for the life of me remember the names and since God is no respecter of persons you would think he would have men and women both to do his will regardless of status
Although @2ndTimeIsTheCharm and @HealthAndHappiness make some very good points and I will take it into consideration I do appreciate both of them
Yes, and verses indicating that authority = stewardship for building up, and the greatest in the KOG is the one who serves.
Also, verses indicating that Paul was sensitive to not wanting to provoke rebellion but rather was content to plant seeds that would cause emancipation peacefully.
Thus, although there are biological differences that suggest different roles,
it may be good that wives also mother their husbands and
husbands love their wives as Christ does his bride, the church.
Also, verses indicating that Paul was sensitive to not wanting to provoke rebellion but rather was content to plant seeds that would cause emancipation peacefully.
Thus, although there are biological differences that suggest different roles,
it may be good that wives also mother their husbands and
husbands love their wives as Christ does his bride, the church.
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The scriptures are clear regarding the roles of men and women in the church.
1 Timothy 2:11-14
“Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. I do not allow (permit) a woman to teach or have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13) For (because) 1. Adam was formed FIRST, then Eve; 2. and Adam was NOT DECEIVED, but the woman being deceived fell into transgression,”
The “roots” of this goes all the way back to Genesis 3 IN THE BEGINNING. GOD said to Eve, “Your desire shall be to your husband and HE SHALL RULE OVER YOU. God was giving out punishment and consequences for their sin. I am fully aware that this is not popular with men and women. But it makes no difference to what God has decreed if I or you like or dislike, approve or disapprove of what God says here. We. Cannot change it. Oh, I know mankind has tried, but God’s word will never be changed by man. As God told Saul of Tarsus, “It is hard for you to kick against the pricks”
I Timothy 11 references this passage in Genesis 3 and God is explaining to us WHY He has done it this way. The way that we let Jesus be our “LORD is that we accept what He says regardless of what I might think about it. Most religious people want Jesus as their SAVIOR, but NOT as their Lord. A lord had the right to make laws and “conditions” and determine “consequences.” We don’t want that!
The Bible plainly teaches that God has a certain “order” or “hierarchy” for many things.
1 Corinthians 11:3
The “head” of Christ is God.
The “head” of Man is Christ.
The “head” of woman is man.
This is God’s hierarchy. This is God’s “order.”
You can no more change the hierarchy of man and woman than we can change the hierarchy of God and Christ. Now, does this mean that Christ is “subhuman”? Just because He’s not ranked the same as GOD? Is He less valuable or Less worthy or less loved? No! This is just God’s order of things. And God has the right to make it anyway that He sees fit.
God also has a “hierarchy” or certain “order” in the church.
1 Corinthians 12:21
18) God has set the members, each one of them, in the body JUST AS HE PLEASED.” He made some of them prophets. Apostles, and teachers. Colossians 1:24 tells us that “the body” is the CHURCH. So, just because I am not an apostle or a prophet, does not mean that I am less valuable to God. In fact. God makes this very point in 1 Cor. 12. He says, (verse 4) “There are different gifts ( miraculous) but the same Spirit. There are different ministries, but the same Lord. There are different activities, but the same God. Men and women in the body if Christ have different activities, ministries , rolls and work. But that does not make them less valuable or less loved, or less important to God. He says so. This is God’s order. He has the right to make it however HE PLEASES.
God continues to say in verses 14-26…should the “foot” say because he is not the “hand”. he is not as good or useful in the body. The eye (verse 21) cannot say to the hand I don’t need you. You are not important because you are a hand and I am the eye. The “head” cannot say to the “feet”.you are not important. I don’t need you. You are worth less than me. I am loved more than you. No! Do you see the point The Holy Spirit is making? God has given leadership rolls in the “body” to men. No one needs to say that men are more important to God because of this. This does not mean that God loves men more than women. This is why He said what He did in Galations 3:28. Just as all of the different miraculous gifts are by the same spirit (1 Cor. 12:4) and one is not more important than the other, even so, in the church of Christ every person is loved and valued the same by God regardless of their race, sex, or station in life. But this does NOT change what God says in 1 Tim. 2, 1 Cor. 11, 1 Cor. 22 or 1 Cor. 14 “women are to keep silent in the churches. They are not permitted to speak. It is SHAMEFUL for women to speak in the church.” Those are not my words. Those are the words of the Holy Spirit. Those are the words of God. Galations 3:28 does not change, or “cancel out” Genesis 3:16, 1 Corinthians 11;1-3, 12, 14:34-35 or 1 Timothy 2:11-14.
ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD…”. 2 Tim. 2:16
In addition to what I’ve already posted about this, I’d like to add that Paul makes it very clear that the things he taught the church at Corinth are the same things he teaches to ALL THE CHURCHES. 1 Cor 4:17. In 7:17, he says what he teaches he ORDAINS. In ALL THE churches. In fact, he addresses the letter of Corinthians to “ the Church of God at Corinth…with ALL who IN EVERY PLACE call on the name of Jesus.. “. This letter is not just for the Corinthians. It is for Christians EVERY WHERE. In chapter 16 he says that what he is telling the Corinthians to do, he has already “ordered” the churches in Galatia to do.
Colossians 4:16- “Now when this letter is read among you, see that it is also read in the church of the Laodiceans, and that you likewise read the letter from Laodicea.”
1 Thess. 5:27- “I CHARGE you by THE LORD that this epistle be read TO ALL OF THE HOLY BRETHREN.
I use these to show that these letters were not only for the church they were addressed to but they were for the whole brotherhood of Christians everywhere. I do not believe that the things Paul wrote about women to the church at Corinth was because they were having trouble with women there or because that was just their “culture” or their particular situation. We have already seen where He says the same thing in his letter to Timothy. He is not addressing a personal problem only for Corinth. But rather, as Paul reminds us in chapter 14:37- “…the things that I write to you are the commandments of the LORD.”
He has already said that He teaches the same things in all the churches 4;17 and 7:17.
There were a few times that Paul did address a particular problem of a specific church. 1 Corinthians 1. he specifically condemns the division at Corinth. Chapter 5, he condemns the adultery they have going on in their congregation; but we are not to imply from that, that adultery any where else would be alright. Or that division in Any other church is ok. So why take chapter 14 and say that the instruction there is just for the Christians in Corinth? No. He does not even imply that it was just for them and not anyone else. If it was wrong for Corinth, it woujd be wrong for Christians everywhere. If it was wrong in the church at Corinth, it was wrong for all churches of Christ everywhere. What He teaches about God’s hierarchy in chapter 11 did not just apply to the church at Corinth, it was true everywhere!
When there is a scripture that is unpopular with People —like 1 Cor. 14:37 and 1 Tim. 2:11-14, there is ALWAYS an effort to find a “loop hole” or a way to get “around” it, so that we can continue to do what we want or please ourselves; maybe it’s an effort of preachers to make the gospel of Christ more appealing to people and easier to “preach.” I don’t know. One thing I am sure of , it is one of Satan’s “devices”. 2 Cor. 2:11
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What Paul wrote in 1 Cor. 14 was for leadership in public worship. Verse 23 says when the WHOLE CHURCH COMES TOGETHER, and verse 26, “whenever you come together”. This is a public assembly. A woman is forbidden to take a leadership role, that not only means preaching or teaching publicly, it also means “leading” a prayer in the public assembly. But that does not mean she can’t teach privately. That does not mean that she can’t pray privately. I know that because we have a scripture where a husband -wife team taught a man in Acts 18:24-26. Also, women are commanded to teach the young women Titus 2:4; and they can teach children as Timothy’s mother and grandmother taught him in 2 Tim1. You can only get the “truth” by putting ALL of the New Testament together. Just as God gives “guide lines” to the command not to teach, he also gives us “guidelines” for being silent; he tells all Christians to “sing” in such passages as Eph 5;29 and Col. 3:16. So it is considered alright for women to sing in the assembly—but another guideline is that whatever she does she should not usurp authority OVER a man. This is why she is forbidden leadership roles.
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@Beckworth I apologize but I couldn't read your whole post it strains my eyes to much but I got the gist of it. so if man is to rule over women what is the role of a women within the body of Christ? where do they stand in the church?
