Making a case for women in leadership

[Blain]

Everyone knows Pauls words on women pastors or rather a women speaking or teaching in the church and at face value this would seem pretty clear however the context of the verse has to do with the issues that was going on in the church at the time but what really got me thinking was this right here

Galatians 3:28 states that in Christ Jesus, there is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor male nor female, for all are one. This verse emphasizes the equality and unity of believers in Christ, transcending traditional social and cultural divisions. It highlights that these categories, while still present in human society,
are not determinants of value or significance within the Christian community and so this verse got me thinking if this is to be true then why do we take Pauls words at face value he would be contradicting the himself
unless of course he was speaking in regards to what was going on in the church at the time then it would make sense not to mention what about the women who he even baosted about who ministered to people such as Junia?

This one verse just doesn't make sense to me if indeed women are subhuman in the church and Jesus himself never forbid women of such a thing he never even addressed it
Would Jesus forbid the gospel being preached by a women?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Everyone knows Pauls words on women pastors or rather a women speaking or teaching in the church and at face value this would seem pretty clear however the context of the verse has to do with the issues that was going on in the church at the time but what really got me thinking was this right here

Galatians 3:28 states that in Christ Jesus, there is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor male nor female, for all are one. This verse emphasizes the equality and unity of believers in Christ, transcending traditional social and cultural divisions. It highlights that these categories, while still present in human society,
are not determinants of value or significance within the Christian community and so this verse got me thinking if this is to be true then why do we take Pauls words at face value he would be contradicting the himself
unless of course he was speaking in regards to what was going on in the church at the time then it would make sense not to mention what about the women who he even baosted about who ministered to people such as Junia?

This one verse just doesn't make sense to me if indeed women are subhuman in the church and Jesus himself never forbid women of such a thing he never even addressed it
Would Jesus forbid the gospel being preached by a women?

We're all to spread the gospel whether men or women. Lots of service for God are open to both men and women.

The positions of authority within the church are for men though, not women. But women aren't any less because of that - they just have different function.

But Satan works hard to make women feel as if they're less to try to destroy the hierarchy God had set. But if you look at the Trinity of God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, God the Father is the highest authority. You don't ever see Jesus or the Holy Spirit try to usurp the Father's position. Also, all the 2/3 of angels that remained with God remain in their position in the heirarchy as well.

Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the angels that remained - none of them have any problems with their position and not being the #1 in authority. Only women seem to have that problem with Satan making them feel inferior.

I personally don't have that problem. I'm pretty independent, but I can do the work I'm called to without feeling inferior about my place in the heirarchy.


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[Blain]

We're all to spread the gospel whether men or women. Lots of service for God are open to both men and women.

The positions of authority within the church are for men though, not women. But women aren't any less because of that - they just have different function.

But Satan works hard to make women feel as if they're less to try to destroy the hierarchy God had set. But if you look at the Trinity of God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, God the Father is the highest authority. You don't ever see Jesus or the Holy Spirit try to usurp the Father's position. Also, all the 2/3 of angels that remained with God remain in their position in the heirarchy as well.

Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the angels that remained - none of them have any problems with their position and not being the #1 in authority. Only women seem to have that problem with Satan making them feel inferior.

I personally don't have that problem. I'm pretty independent, but I can do the work I'm called to without feeling inferior about my place in the heirarchy.


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So what about there not being man or women in Christ?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

So what about there not being man or women in Christ?

That's not talking about hierarchy though. It's about value in Christ - we have the same value to Him regardless of gender.


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[Blain]

That's not talking about hierarchy though. It's about value in Christ - we have the same value to Him regardless of gender.


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if it is the same value but different roles is that really the same value? anf what about people who came to Christ from women pastors? my friend from Texas attended a church and this women pastor was preaching powerfully and it awoke something in him strongly he literally fell to the floor right then and there repenting and accepting God into his life he now is a pastor himself all because of this one women

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

if it is the same value but different roles is that really the same value? anf what about people who came to Christ from women pastors? my friend from Texas attended a church and this women pastor was preaching powerfully and it awoke something in him strongly he literally fell to the floor right then and there repenting and accepting God into his life he now is a pastor himself all because of this one women

You place too much faith in sensational experiences. They don't all come from God and needs discernment.

These are the last days and the deceptions that come are going to look more and more closely like the truth.

As you know there are all kinds of churches with varying degrees of following God and His word closely. A church who has a woman pastor is pretty deviated from the truth in the Bible so I'm not impressed if your friend was overcome by some miraculous experience coming from a woman pastor. And now since your friend is a pastor too, he's propagating the false teaching that women can have authority over the men in church.


🚟

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Everyone knows Pauls words on women pastors or rather a women speaking or teaching in the church and at face value this would seem pretty clear however the context of the verse has to do with the issues that was going on in the church at the time but what really got me thinking was this right here

Galatians 3:28 states that in Christ Jesus, there is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor male nor female, for all are one. This verse emphasizes the equality and unity of believers in Christ, transcending traditional social and cultural divisions. It highlights that these categories, while still present in human society,
are not determinants of value or significance within the Christian community and so this verse got me thinking if this is to be true then why do we take Pauls words at face value he would be contradicting the himself
unless of course he was speaking in regards to what was going on in the church at the time then it would make sense not to mention what about the women who he even baosted about who ministered to people such as Junia?

This one verse just doesn't make sense to me if indeed women are subhuman in the church and Jesus himself never forbid women of such a thing he never even addressed it
Would Jesus forbid the gospel being preached by a women?

Fair enough questions.
When I look at leadership roles, I first start with the premise that God knows best and is Sovereign regardless of my opinions or the world's.

Paul made statements that some femists call him a pig because they don't like them. That is dangerous because the Bible has human authorship as well as Divine. His letters on leadership roles were not made up by Paul, but were inspired by the Holy Spirit.
This is why women are not to pastor.
However, that never denied saved women the right and responsibility to teach the gospel to everyone.

There are prerequisites that disqualify me as a pastor. For instance I am a man who checks the boxes except for not being married with children. Some don't like that, but I am content to evangelize. Everything must be judged in context.
For instance, children are not forbidden to preach the gospel, but they are disqualified from authority in the church over a congregation. Are they "subhuman?"
No, they just serve a different role.
The same is true of all is it not?

I would like to pick a company that I like and choose to be the CEO. Am I qualified and have I earned the title? Perhaps not. Am I subhuman for being in a non leadership position when applying for a job?

These are perspectives that I had to come to terms with as a young man who wanted to serve the Lord.
A misunderstanding can even stifle ministry that is appropriate as I have examples of too.

 

[Blain]

You place too much faith in sensational experiences. They don't all come from God and needs discernment.

These are the last days and the deceptions that come are going to look more and more closely like the truth.

As you know there are all kinds of churches with varying degrees of following God and His word closely. A church who has a woman pastor is pretty deviated from the truth in the Bible so I'm not impressed if your friend was overcome by some miraculous experience coming from a woman pastor. And now since your friend is a pastor too, he's propagating the false teaching that women can have authority over the men in church.


🚟

Not authority over men just equal to, if the verse above is to be believed and we are all equal then it shold be that way in all aspects of the faith. my friend doesn't teach women being over men just equal to them.

 

[Blain]

Fair enough questions.
When I look at leadership roles, I first start with the premise that God knows best and is Sovereign regardless of my opinions or the world's.

Paul made statements that some femists call him a pig because they don't like them. That is dangerous because the Bible has human authorship as well as Divine. His letters on leadership roles were not made up by Paul, but were inspired by the Holy Spirit.
This is why women are not to pastor.
However, that never denied saved women the right and responsibility to teach the gospel to everyone.

There are prerequisites that disqualify me as a pastor. For instance I am a man who checks the boxes except for not being married with children. Some don't like that, but I am content to evangelize. Everything must be judged in context.
For instance, children are not forbidden to preach the gospel, but they are disqualified from authority in the church over a congregation. Are they "subhuman?"
No, they just serve a different role.
The same is true of all is it not?

I would like to pick a company that I like and choose to be the CEO. Am I qualified and have I earned the title? Perhaps not. Am I subhuman for being in a non leadership position when applying for a job?

These are perspectives that I had to come to terms with as a young man who wanted to serve the Lord.
A misunderstanding can even stifle ministry that is appropriate as I have examples of too.

ok that makes sense even so I wonder what we make of people who were saved by women pastors not just my friend but in general do we tell them it isn't biblical and does that mean they aren't really saved?

 

[NightTwister]

I'm always skeptical of anything that starts with, "the case for"

 

[Blain]

I'm always skeptical of anything that starts with, "the case for"

skeptical? why is that?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Not authority over men just equal to, if the verse above is to be believed and we are all equal then it shold be that way in all aspects of the faith. my friend doesn't teach women being over men just equal to them.

I said that we are of the same value to the Lord. That means "equal". But it doesn't mean we're equal in the authority that God has set. If God has set one as authority over another, it doesn't mean those under that authority are less.

Is Jesus and the Holy Spirit less in value than the Father? No, but there does have to be hierarchy and respect for the order and function in order for things to run smoothly. Remember God is a not a God of chaos/disorder, but of peace.


🚟

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

You place too much faith in sensational experiences. They don't all come from God and needs discernment.

These are the last days and the deceptions that come are going to look more and more closely like the truth.

As you know there are all kinds of churches with varying degrees of following God and His word closely. A church who has a woman pastor is pretty deviated from the truth in the Bible so I'm not impressed if your friend was overcome by some miraculous experience coming from a woman pastor. And now since your friend is a pastor too, he's propagating the false teaching that women can have authority over the men in church.


🚟

One contemporary Example that comes to mind is Paula White.

Many would say that she is the most qualified to pastor a church because of experience and the resume'.

I looked at some of her core teachings and those disqualified her regardless of her celebrity as the president's spiritual advisor and mega church multimillionaire pastorette.
She preaches a false gospel.
She supports the wicked religion of the Moonies.
She is not a believer in Christ, so she is not a part of a legitimate church body.

However, a humble lady or two took young Paul aside in private and shared true doctrine with him. He also commended his preacher boy Timothy's Mom and Grandma for teaching him. Perhaps those influences were reasons why God used the two pastoral epistles as training for millions of us since? I'm glad the ladies influence and love were demonstrated at the cross of true courage even beyond bold fishermen.
The Marys showed up at the tomb first too. I was reading those passages yesterday and admired that devotion.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

However, a humble lady or two took young Paul aside in private and shared true doctrine with him. He also commended his preacher boy Timothy's Mom and Grandma for teaching him. Perhaps those influences were reasons why God used the two pastoral epistles as training for millions of us since? I'm glad the ladies influence and love were demonstrated at the cross of true courage even beyond bold fishermen.
The Marys showed up at the tomb first too. I was reading those passages yesterday and admired that devotion.

Correct! These women are the perfect example of how Christian women should be. No militant effort to usurp the authority God sets - but see how extremely influential their work was for God and His people!

I wish Christian women would just ignore what Satan and his minions are whispering into their ears and just keep our eyes on the Lord. When Christian women do that, they will always know they are just as valued as men and that our work for God is just as important to Him!


🚟

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

ok that makes sense even so I wonder what we make of people who were saved by women pastors not just my friend but in general do we tell them it isn't biblical and does that mean they aren't really saved?

I'm not saying that. Since I trusted Christ to save me, I have supported ladies sharing that same good news with others.
The one place I have to reserve in regards to churches is that of positions of authority over men, like the pastorate. There are two lists that go into the elders, pastors and deacons.
There are wives described too.
There's a reason for the distinctions, but no contradictions.

I wish more men, women and children would get involved serving others wherever they fit.

Families need leader's structure too.
I don't see the wives as lesser people, but rather of being designed for fitting roles.
Men who are serving need their wives to assist and to minister on their own at times too.
I'd like to go to every Bible preaching church in my region and influence them to reach the Lost. I need a good wife for such a venture. Not all women would qualify. It's an important and special responsibility that exceeds spec ops in military yet the spiritual realm.

In groups of ladies, there should be different roles there amongst themselves too. I want to see thousands of ladies in my part of the country going to the shut ins, assisted living and blessing every one with the gospel and good works for assistance. Their own children can get involved as mothers lead. This will teach them compassion, empathy, love and good works. Guess what they will likely do for their own parents if there's ever time of need? There's no competition amongst the family, but an effective cooperation as the Lord's blessings upon the earth.

 

[MsMediator]

Everyone knows Pauls words on women pastors or rather a women speaking or teaching in the church and at face value this would seem pretty clear however the context of the verse has to do with the issues that was going on in the church at the time but what really got me thinking was this right here

Galatians 3:28 states that in Christ Jesus, there is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor male nor female, for all are one. This verse emphasizes the equality and unity of believers in Christ, transcending traditional social and cultural divisions. It highlights that these categories, while still present in human society,
are not determinants of value or significance within the Christian community and so this verse got me thinking if this is to be true then why do we take Pauls words at face value he would be contradicting the himself
unless of course he was speaking in regards to what was going on in the church at the time then it would make sense not to mention what about the women who he even baosted about who ministered to people such as Junia?

This one verse just doesn't make sense to me if indeed women are subhuman in the church and Jesus himself never forbid women of such a thing he never even addressed it
Would Jesus forbid the gospel being preached by a women?

In Biblical times, the Jewish women were not mandated or even encouraged to study the Torah. They were probably illiterate. Paul was influenced by this fact, in saying that women should be quiet. It was the men who learned the Torah and in depth. That elders should be men also falls in line with the fact that women were probably illiterate back then and did not study the Torah. Would it have made sense for women to teach the Torah? If women were also well-versed in the Torah, would Paul have said the same?

We know that because Jesus taught Mary, He would likely be fine with women studying the Torah or the Bible. We also know that Jesus would likely be fine with placing heavy responsibilities on women including preaching the Gospel (Mary Magdalene). Now, what does it mean to teach? If a woman pastor is telling the congregation (including men), that the Bible says that you should do this or that...I don't really see that as authority over a man as the head of the Church is Christ.

 

[Blain]

In Biblical times, the Jewish women were not mandated or even encouraged to study the Torah. They were probably illiterate. Paul was influenced by this fact, in saying that women should be quiet. It was the men who learned the Torah and in depth. That elders should be men also falls in line with the fact that women were probably illiterate back then and did not study the Torah. Would it have made sense for women to teach the Torah? If women were also well-versed in the Torah, would Paul have said the same?

We know that because Jesus taught Mary, He would likely be fine with women studying the Torah or the Bible. We also know that Jesus would likely be fine with placing heavy responsibilities on women including preaching the Gospel (Mary Magdalene). Now, what does it mean to teach? If a woman pastor is telling the congregation (including men), that the Bible says that you should do this or that...I don't really see that as authority over a man as the head of the Church is Christ.

True back then women were very restricted and not allowed to study the Torah I didn't consider that, the issue with the verses that speak against women speaking in church is that the chapter talks snout the disruption in the church that was my initial issue with it but now that you reminded me about how they likely were not studied it makes much more sense why Paul said what he did mot to mention the culture back then made women submit to men especially their husbands
But the fact does remain that it is still in the word of God therefore it is the inspired word of God and unless one takes all this to heart then at face value it would appear Paul was talking about women in general.

But you know at the risk at being called out for hearing something that wasn't God I have been meditating on this asking Jesus what would you say about this? over and over I asked and over and over again I only heard do not forbid women to speak

I just kept asking and he just kept saying that and earlier today I told him if he wanted me to say anything for him I am willing and after asking and recieving the same anxswer over and over he said didn't you want to speak for me?

I hesitated posting this for fear of being called out for hearing something not from God but I just felt it needed to be said

 

[Blain]

I'm not saying that. Since I trusted Christ to save me, I have supported ladies sharing that same good news with others.
The one place I have to reserve in regards to churches is that of positions of authority over men, like the pastorate. There are two lists that go into the elders, pastors and deacons.
There are wives described too.
There's a reason for the distinctions, but no contradictions.

I wish more men, women and children would get involved serving others wherever they fit.

Families need leader's structure too.
I don't see the wives as lesser people, but rather of being designed for fitting roles.
Men who are serving need their wives to assist and to minister on their own at times too.
I'd like to go to every Bible preaching church in my region and influence them to reach the Lost. I need a good wife for such a venture. Not all women would qualify. It's an important and special responsibility that exceeds spec ops in military yet the spiritual realm.

In groups of ladies, there should be different roles there amongst themselves too. I want to see thousands of ladies in my part of the country going to the shut ins, assisted living and blessing every one with the gospel and good works for assistance. Their own children can get involved as mothers lead. This will teach them compassion, empathy, love and good works. Guess what they will likely do for their own parents if there's ever time of need? There's no competition amongst the family, but an effective cooperation as the Lord's blessings upon the earth.

So it is the position that is the issue not the preaching or sharing the gospel then? of course I do recal that for most of the time not all the time but most God used men to do his will but there have been times when he used women instead of men but this was before the church was established

 

[Randy4u2c]

Joel 2:28, Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy. God intends to use males and females to spread his word. When Paul said that women should remain quiet in church, it means when God's word is being taught, they shouldn't talk or gossip. You know what? Neither should men!

In Paul's day it was dangerous to spread the gospel as the church was being prosecuted, therefore he didn't suffer the women to preach to protect them from harm. Keep in mind that all through the bible women were used by God. Deborah was a judge, Anna was a teacher, Andrew's daughters were prophetesses. Note that Paul made numerous references to woman that worked in the ministry. Paul was by no means contradicting himself. It is a matter of properly interpreting what was said.

 

[MsMediator]

But the fact does remain that it is still in the word of God therefore it is the inspired word of God and unless one takes all this to heart then at face value it would appear Paul was talking about women in general.

Yes, it is in the Bible but I also think context matters in this case especially in light of other verses where women can evangelise, prophesies, and study.