Who is Elihu?
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I don't see how anything Elihu says lines up with him telling Job he should be patient and glorify God instead of complaining. I don't see it in his words or in his tone at all. I've seen this interpretation used to make Elihu as some kind of good guy counselor, approaching the issue from a better angle. But again, he says things that are not true, and the "advice" he does give is still based on the assumption Job has sinned - even though it's different than how Job's friends address it.
Elihu says in 34:10 "Therefore hearken unto me, ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity." Of course this is true that God is perfect and holy, but as we know in this story, God did allow this suffering to come upon Job *without cause*. It's an extraordinarily unique story because it points to an extraordinarily unique event when our innocent Savior died on the Cross even though He had done nothing wrong.
I find Elihu's philosophy here anathema to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Yes, I agree that is the friends view, and we both agree they were wrong. As for the words "adds rebellion to his sin" those are Elihu's words in 34:37. Elihu is making this claim. So he believes Job has not only sinned (which he has not) but now he is also adding rebellion to it. That is what Elihu says. Elihu is wrong because Job has not sinned in the first place to cause his ordeal. Job is also not acting rebelliously and refusing to confess his sin because that's not the issue. What Job is doing is maintaining his integrity, much like God says about him in chapter 2 after Job's first trial of losing everything.
Job 2:3 "... he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause"
of the translations you chose, only the kj21 is close to literal. The interpretive versions are not translations at all and should be avoided altogether, they are not at all trustworthy representations of the Word but of human opinion.
KJV and some of its derivatives have "let" in this verse. But it is not in the Hebrew. even nkjv, which i quoted, corrects the mistake.
the context of the arguments Jobs friends have made vs the argument Elihu has made, and also the fact he humbly ((and a bit sarcastically)) calls them wise, makes it clear that 35-37 are not Elihu's accusations, but the accusations his friends have made. he is saying, 'this is what your friend say about you' - - and we see exactly the wish that Job be 'tried to the utmost' expressed in the preceding chapters by them.
if it is as you hypothesized, that Elihu is instanteously disintegrated for saying this, why weren't Jobs friends also?
Answering shouldn't be a problem for a stepper right?
To me, Elihu is like a person thinking they are wearing a tuxedo without a bow tie. A tux without a bow tie isn't a tuxedo, So words without knowledge are liken unto a tux without a bow, so what is the works of God that makes his light to shine out of a cloud ?
Are you referring unto those you call the Nephilim in Genesis 6:2 ?
"for they had made an appointment together to come to mourn with him and to comfort him.' . Job 2:11 (See Matthew 22:12-13.)
Might be they weren't speaking lies in hypocrisy; again saying things which one believes to be true is not the same as professing to believe things that they don't believe is true is spiritual infidelity. The spirit of a man will sustain him from his physical affliction but a wounded spirit who can bear?
this seems to me like more of a mix of humble deference ((they are his elders)) and sarcasm - - remember he is just as angry over what their conversation has been as he is over Jobs self-justification. flattering the person he is angry with? does not make sense.
do you think the Nephelim are assembled to present themselves to God in Job 1?
no, you argue that because a character is present in an earlier chapter and not mentioned in chapter 42, it must mean they have been annihilated.
well Satan and all the angels are not mentioned in chapter 42 but they are mentioned in an earlier chapter.
does that mean all the angels were utterly destroyed by the end of the book of Job?
well Job calls them miserable comfort and God calls them wrong in what they have said.
Elihu has clearly been there with Job at least the entire time his friends have, because he heard all they said.
a reasonsble assumption is that he lives near Job and has known and respected him his entire life, so he came to sit silently with him immediately, and then Jobs friends who had set in in their busy schedules an appointment to travel and sit, show up, and from that time on Elihu listens, until they are done - and he isn't satisfied with what he heard.
but you think Elihu is deliberately lying?
about what? can you cite an example?
which brings up an obvious question no one has asked:
in Job 38:1 rather suddenly God speaks "out of the whirlwind"
wait wut?
what whirlwind?
since when has there been a whirlwind?
how long has the whirlwind been there?
there is no mention of it approaching - has it been with Job the entire time?
elephant in the room?
did any of you read this for the first time and honestly think, oh yeah obviously the whirlwind????
this is only the second mention of a whirlwind in the entire Bible.
the first is 2 Kings 2, Elijah ((note the super similar name)) being taken up to heaven in a whirlwind - - and John b is a historically much older book, a time period long before Elijah and written way before Genesis was. so in a time sense, the earliest mention of a whirlwind in all scripture.
IWhy would I refer unto the sons of God by the term Nephilim, if you haven't then I apologize. I was merely seeking clarification on which way you interpret them in the book of Job.
Mark well, O Job, hearken unto me: hold thy peace, and I will speak.
If thou hast any thing to say, answer me: speak, for I desire to justify thee.
Job Job 33:31 -32
My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men.
For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God.
Job 34:36 -7
While I am not judging Elihu, that two statements indicate that it is either a lie or the opinion of a double minded mind. Do really didn't know who he was talking to, did he.If thou hast any thing to say, answer me: speak, for I desire to justify thee.
Job Job 33:31 -32
My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men.
For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God.
Job 34:36 -7
this is just more indication that 34:35-37 is not Elihu's opinion but that, as 34:34 states, a restatement of what Bildad, Eliphaz and Zophar have said about Job.
Job 34:34-37
"Men of understanding say to me, Wise men who listen to me:
'Job speaks without knowledge, His words [are] without wisdom. Oh, that Job were tried to the utmost, Because [his] answers [are like] those of wicked men! For he adds rebellion to his sin; He claps [his hands] among us, and multiplies his words against God.'"
- Eliphaz accuses Job of ignorance and foolishness, Job 15:1-16
- Zophar accuses Job of foolishness and wicked speech, and wishes God would bring him to judgment, Job 11:1-6
- Bildad accuses Job of rebellion in addition to sin, Job 18:1-4
- Zophar accuses Job of wickedness and rebellion against their rebuke, even against heaven, Job 20:3-7
- Eliphaz accuses Job of rebellion against God, great wickedness and endless sin, Job 22:4-5, 12-17, and wishes Job would receive judgement from God over it, Job 22:22
i don't agree.
i think it's clear that Elihu is referring to the words of Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar in 34:35-37, which is what 34:34 says he is doing, and that's witnessed by the next paragraph too in 35, where after saying this he immediately asks, do you think this is right?
"do you think this is right" is not a question you ask about something you just stated with confidence as your own view. it's something you ask when you quote what someone else has said, particularly, something you yourself don't agree with.
Elihu doesn't accuse Job of sin, and the text explicitly tells us he is angry with those who do. what he says about Job is this:
Job 33:12-13
Look, [in] this you are not righteous. I will answer you, For God is greater than man. Why do you contend with Him? For He does not give an accounting of any of His words.
Elihu says it is not righteous for Job to contend with God over his troubles. that's it.
and God answers, proclaiming how infinitely greater than Job He is.
but does God give Job an account of why any of this has happened to him? nope.
just like Eliphaz said.
Job is humbled and repents of contending with God - exactly the thing Eliphaz said he should do.
The bottom line is that God rebukes Job, and once Job is reconciled to God He rebukes the three friends. The only one not rebuked by God in the book of Job is Elihu.
I went back and looked, and you definitely associated the sons of God in Job 1-2 with the sons of God in Genesis 6 which you clearly referred unto as nephilim.
While you say "clearly angels" but by angels you mean in the sense of Jude :1 6 "the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."
You even stated in this thread that "the book of Job is a historically much older book, a time period long before Elijah and written way before Genesis was. so in a time sense, the earliest mention of a whirlwind in all scripture." If written prior to Genesis then the sons of God in the book of Job would by default be the sons of God in Genesis 6.