Concerning the gift of tongues
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O
ocean
Guest
I figured you wrote it. I will stick with the biblical rendition which does not state the gifts will end until God ends this world. No, I don't see what you say you see. Your view of what perfect means is in a cubicle by itself though
News flash though: The church today is on a fast track to going astray BECAUSE they choose to put their own spin on scripture. I guess Solomon was right.
What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
O
ocean
Guest
Culture has changed. Cars, pcs, tech, tv, etc was not around back then and that may be in part why the church grew so fast. (make the connection)
However, the hearts and minds of humans are still the same. Jesus still says He died for us. So tell me how we do not need any instruction and just can glide along on the church achievements of 2000 years ago. The best evidence of being dependent on the Holy Spirit today as much as ever, is more than observable, or should be, in the state of the world and the church today.
No. It is showing you taking out of context what I said. And very fast to point out what you think is a lie while missing your ignorance.
The text produces the context, read it again, shall we?
Matthew 13:
Jesus provided many parables in this Chapter. What were they about?
- The Sower
- Why did he speak in Parables
- Jesus explains the meaning of the sower /seed( word of God)
- Parable of wheat & tares
- Parable of the Mustard Seed
- Parable of the leaven
- Explanation of THE TARES
- Parable of hidden treasure
- The Parable of the Dragnet
Faith is a direct requirement for Gods hand to move.
I will concede that Jesus did some miracles and you were right on that,a nd I was wrong
However, the text says
"He did not do many mighty works there because of their unbelief."
The Greek is clear that Jesus could NOT do the level of Miracles that should have been done due to Unbelief.
Or
- unfaithfulness, faithless
- Many = much, large
- Mighty works = dynamis
Culture???
The post is a fair assertion, your response is but a word salad.
Can you just address his assertion?
Why does our age look like an age of faith without sight in instead of an age of the miraculous?
You said what you think the Bible means.
Quoting is stating what the Bible said.
Example:
John 3:16
New International Version
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Correct, they dont expect to speak in tongues.
They dont waitet for.
So this should be a normal expierience for every believer, according Acts 2 and 10.
But it is not!!!
The first pentecostal was Agnes Ozman, she received it after fasting prayer. Right? Others received it then under which circumstances?
People went to Azusa and spread it into the world. And only those who came in contact with their teaching received it.
Sorry, for me this is a kind of magic.
Why members in pentecostal churches, not in yours, become pressure if they dont get the gift of speaking in tongues?
Why it must be taught how to receive? Why you need a course for to learn it? There are schools, Seminars and what all for to teach it.
If it is normal that a believer receive this gift?
O
ocean
Guest
Are you his lawyer? Or are you two some kind of tag team?
At any rate, his assertion is wrong as I already stated. You don't like the answer so therefore, according to you, I didn't answer. I don't know what your age is.
I think their unbelief wouldn't allow them to receive whatever good miracles Jesus wanted to do for them. So I don't think He was powerless or unable - they just refused to receive from Him.
@Lamar - Let's take your unbelief as an example. Because you don't believe the gifts of Holy Spirit are for today or even for you specifically, even if the Holy Spirit is able and wants to give you such gifts, He's not going to force them on you since you don't want them.
That's why Jesus was unable to do many miracles in certain towns. Their unbelief refused to receive the miracles.
Unfortunately for you, the Holy Spirit doesn't force you to do something you are not ready for. Nor does he make one obey.
No, Agnes Ozman was not the first. As you were shown repeatedly. She is one down through the church ages to receive. And scoff and mock, this was not magic. As I stated before, you only provide a regurgitated Cessationism talking point.
Why did she fast and pray? What text in the Word of God prompted her to do so?
The word of God says :
Jesus speaking:
8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be [c]witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
Later, Peter said in chapter two :
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only [e]the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the [k]remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
Agnes believed Jesus and the words of Peter given to him by the Spirit of God.
Your opinion and attack on those who are not here to defend themselves speaks greatly to your bias and ignorance.
You are correct, Jesus was not powerless, but the unbelief or no faith prevented Jesus from doing so. God will not oppose those who don't want to be imposed on. This is why Jesus said to shake off the dust and move on.I think their unbelief wouldn't allow them to receive whatever good miracles Jesus wanted to do for them. So I don't think He was powerless or unable - they just refused to receive from Him.
@Lamar - Let's take your unbelief as an example. Because you don't believe the gifts of Holy Spirit are for today or even for you specifically, even if the Holy Spirit is able and wants to give you such gifts, He's not going to force them on you since you don't want them.
That's why Jesus was unable to do many miracles in certain towns. Their unbelief refused to receive the miracles.
And a Prophet is not respected in his hometown.
1 John 4:1 ESV
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
The spirits of the Pentecostal movement have long ago been tested and proven to be a farce at best and of the occult at worse.
CS1, I am not sure where your spirit falls but it is not of God. If your spirit was tested as true you would not be here attempting to defend their ongoing existence.
Again the spirits of the Pentecostals and their ilk has long ago been tested and are tested today.
They have failed the test. We live in an age of faith without the need for sight. Those that insist on acquiring these "spirits" are akin to the desires of Simon Magus.
Once again, the Pentecostals and their ilk will not accept any testing of "their spirit". Labeling such testing of the spirits as an offense to God.
I wonder why?
2nd Corin. 5:7
For we walk by faith, not by sight.
Sadly Pentecostals and their ilk can never know this blessing.
The Bible does NOT say that the gifts will not end until the world ends. Where does it say that? Let me help you: IT DOESN’T, NO WHERE
Well, coming from you, I will take that as a compliment. You're just another hater who thinks they can judge others while failing to provide biblical reasoning. When you say the "spirits of Pentecostals"? There is only one, and he is the Spirit of the living God.
Your hang-up is with Pentecostals. Ours is your understanding of the word of God. Test? What test?
1ocr chapter 12 1-3 states :
12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant: 2 You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led. 3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.
You cannot teach, and you do not have the ability to use the word of God to prove your point. Where is your ability to correct me? I am waiting. You can't. At least not biblically. Only grouping all people together with whom you disagree is very immature.
There is nothing about your claims that deserves a biblical discourse.
In other words, you have to prove a supernatural event occurred before the need to search the scriptures is even warranted.
Fake claims of physical supernatural manifestations are not deserving of such effort.
I will not search the scriptures to prove that manna is falling in my backyard. Nor will I do the same for the baseless claims of modern day Simon Magus.