Concerning the gift of tongues

[Wansvic]

You only have to read about the city historical context

https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/magazine/article/into-the-heart-of-paganism

The word of God speaks for itself and is actually the final authority.

 

[Lamar]

Miss the point much?

I believe my comment was cogent. I would enjoy reading your rebuttal.

 

[CS1]

Yes, they are also in charismatic movements.
The different is, that in charismatic/pentecostal doctrine it is claimed that these wonders and miracles are in the same way then during the apostolic time. This I questioning. Because obviously it is not!

What I believe is that God is still doing wonders and miracles today. Independ from any denomination. And obviously mainly in mission ministrie. For to show that he is the living God and his word is true.

Honestly, in a church of believers he need not to proof that he is the living God and that his word is true. Because a child of God knows this already.
Otherwise I would say something is wrong in the church.

To you, it's not, but you are not an authority. Are you Pentacostel? Are you a minister of a Pentecostal denomination? What you call claims are documented Testimonies of Healings, salvation, and people baptized in the Holy Spirit. You don't accept the testimony. As if you were there in 1904 or the 1800s.


WE do not need proof. Jesus said these signs follow those who believe. In His name we cast out devils, heal the sick, and speak in new tongues. Just because you have not seen it doesn't make the word of God null and Void.

 

[Blain]

I believe manifestation of tongues is so rare today because people are told they receive the Holy Ghost the moment they confess belief in Jesus. A couple scriptures that reveal this is not true is Paul's question in Acts 19:2, Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed? And, it was Jesus Himself that said that God will give the Holy Ghost to those who ask. (Luke 11:13) Think about it, to whom were Jesus words directed? Believers. (Luke 11:13).

As uncomfortable as it may be to some, the truth is, many who believe in Jesus have yet to receive the Holy Ghost. The ability to speak in genuine unknown tongues manifests directly from the indwelling presence of the Holy Ghost as revealed in Acts 2:4 and confirmed elsewhere in scripture. (Acts 10, 19)

Well I know I have it because I have spoken to him personally and to Jesus himself face to face I got to meet both him and the holy spirit but I don't speak in tongues yet perhaps I have the gift and don't know it but it hasn't manifested in me yet

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Well I know I have it because I have spoken to him personally and to Jesus himself face to face I got to meet both him and the holy spirit but I don't speak in tongues yet perhaps I have the gift and don't know it but it hasn't manifested in me yet

I'm not sure what you mean by having it but not manifesting it?

Everybody I know that has it and in the Bible just started speaking in tongues. It's pretty immediate. No one had to work they way up to it.

 

[Blain]

I have had this experience as well. I have come to understand when the Holy Ghost/Spirit has begun to flow. There is nothing more rewarding then to look back at something I wrote and know it came directly from Him, the only part I played was my fingers did the typing.

I'm pretty sure you can attest to something. Upon rereading what "I've" written it's easy to recognize when I started to put in my "two cents." My keyboard backspace gets more use then I care to admit at times. LOL But, oh, the awesome things I've learned when His words are flowing out of me whether audibly or on "paper." Especially those times when I have to look up the definition of a word He had me write. The experience is miraculous. And best of all He gets all the credit.

yes it turly is amazing when that flow starts and the words just pour out on their own like that heck my fingers cannot type fast enough once it starts and it is like I zone out and am on auto mode or something not even aware of my surroundings

 

[Blain]

I'm not sure what you mean by having it but not manifesting it?

Everybody I know and in the Bible just started speaking in tongues. It's pretty immediate. No one had to work they way up to it.

Well maybe it is one of those things where you either have it or don't or maybe you can have the poteniel for the gift just need to try and do it but honestly I am against trying to speak in tongues when you don't have the gift that is how you get a lot of fake tongues.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Well maybe it is one of those things where you either have it or don't or maybe you can have the poteniel for the gift just need to try and do it but honestly I am against trying to speak in tongues when you don't have the gift that is how you get a lot of fake tongues.

If it will help you, I've given my testimony about it on this thread Gift of Tongues, Post #7. I'm posting that here again with some corrections and clarifications that I couldn't update after the 5-minute editing window:

=====

"I received it many years back. I was at church.

I don't remember what the sermon was about but there was an alter call about receiving that gift. I really felt the Holy Spirit wanted me to have it (felt that for a few weeks actually), so out of obedience I approach one of the elders who were standing at the front to pray for people. I told her that I feel that the Holy Spirit wants me to receive it, and she said, "Oh! So do I [corrected]! I just got goose bumps just now!" So she [laid hands on me and] prayed for me....

I started to speak in tongues. It actually scared me that I started to cry even as I continued to speak in tongues. But I wasn't going to refuse what the Holy Spirit wanted for me.

So that's how I received it. I'm not scared of speaking in tongues anymore. "

====

So from recalling my own experience, the Holy Spirit was very clear that He wanted me to have it. I didn't have any doubts about it at all. And as far as I know, that was the same way with other people who have that gift.

 

[PaulThomson]

It tells me the best scholars believe there is good reason to question its veracity.

What reasons?

 

[ocean]

You only have to read about the city historical context

https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/magazine/article/into-the-heart-of-paganism

You are deliberately adding to what the scripture says. Why is that? Anyone familiar with historical content acknowledges that port cities were awash with all kinds of sin but to constantly try to make an argument against the gift of tongues, given by God through the Holy Spirit, makes me wonder why you are going out of your way to do so. You have no authority over the Bible whatsoever, yet you just keep on keeping on with the problems in secular un-Christian Corinth as though you think or maybe hope? that the history of sin somehow disallows for salvation or spiritual gifts.

Rather you should praise God that DESPITE the overwhelming sin, people turned to Christ, were saved and experienced gifts given through the Holy Spirit. People love to point to Corinthians as some kind of proof that tongues were a no no, but correction, actually much of the NT is both correction and instruction, is not, NOT, proof of anything other than that 'they were doin it wrong'.

Actually, it is the very correction they were given, that is still telling us how to 'do it right'

 

[Lamar]

To you, it's not, but you are not an authority. Are you Pentacostel? Are you a minister of a Pentecostal denomination? What you call claims are documented Testimonies of Healings, salvation, and people baptized in the Holy Spirit. You don't accept the testimony. As if you were there in 1904 or the 1800s.


WE do not need proof. Jesus said these signs follow those who believe. In His name we cast out devils, heal the sick, and speak in new tongues. Just because you have not seen it doesn't make the word of God null and Void.

One does not need to be a veterinarian to know a cat from a dog.

Nor is there a need to "document" current events.

If Pentecostalism were true there would be no need for documentation or a scriptural defense.

 

[Dino246]

Everything that has been personally shared here has been well-supported with Scripture, including quotations straight out of the mouth of Jesus, proving its veracity.

If your belief system and ego are so fragile that you feel you need to threaten others with banishment for sharing the truth, by falsely labeling the truth as "heresy"

Peace be upon you and within you as you contemplate this decision.

Foolish personal attack. Check the site rules and proceed at your own risk.

 

[Wansvic]

i listened to studies about tongues with tom durance & charles stanley & they both agree tongues have ceased. it made sense to me. someone resurrected the idea around the late 1800's or early 1900's & it took hold. but then, once, i had this vision that tongues are true. i didn't mention that earlier.

There is much evidence of the continuation of speaking in tongues throughout church history. I will make thread giving specifics regarding the following:

Century
1 Apostolic church
2 Early post-apostolic church, Justin, Irenaeus, Montanists
3 Tertullian, Novatian, Sabellians
4 Endorsement by Hilary, endorsement by Ambrose
12 Some Waldensians, some Albigensians, some Franciscans, some among other mendicant religious orders
16 Some Anabaptists, including some Mennonites;
Prophecy movement in England
17 Camisards; some Quakers; some Jansenists; some
Pietists, including some Moravians
18 Some Methodists, some from the 17th-century
groups mentioned above

Group or Individual
19 Some in American revivals and camps, Irvingites,
some Plymouth Brethren, Readers, some Lutherans,
some in the Holiness movement, the “gift people” in
New England, other Christians
20 Pentecostals, charismatics from every denomination

 

[AFreeman]

Dino was actually just letting you know the site policy, which is enacted upon those who insist on denying the Deity of Christ.

Rather than making it about his belief system and ego, you could accept it as a simple fact of site parameters.

Denying the Deity of Christ is the number one theological offence leading to being banned.

Letting you know what is and what is not allowed is a kindness.

Thank-you.

It's understood you may mean well, and genuinely don't see how all of that is ego driven, but it's never kind to lie to others, or to promote lies, regardless of whether those lies are out of ignorance or intentional.

The following verses are among hundreds of unambiguous declarations that Father is The Most High God.

Matthew 6:9-10
6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy name.
6:10 Thy Kingdom come. Thy Will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto MY FATHER, and your Father; AND [TO] MY GOD, and your God.

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and THE HEAD OF CHRIST [IS] GOD.

Is it "heresy" to point out the Truth that these crystal clear message are telling us for our own benefit?

 

[Wansvic]

There is no glory in speaking in your native language but claim to be speaking in a supernaturally powered tongue...whoa!!!

This is simply all there is to this nonsense.

Deep down they all know this.

I think this is about the saddest comment I've every read. I can only guess you've never had the experience. If you ever do, you will no doubt be compelled to repent.

Speaking in tongues is a manifestation of the indwelling presence of the Holy Ghost. And those who interact with God in such a way will tell you it is a very humbling experience not something to boast about. Unless of course they are in real need of some heart adjusting.

 

[Magenta]

Thank-you.

It's understood you may mean well, and genuinely don't see how all of that is ego driven, but it's never kind to lie to others, or to promote lies, regardless of whether those lies are out of ignorance or intentional.

The following verses are among hundreds of unambiguous declarations that Father is The Most High God.

Matthew 6:9-10
6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy name.
6:10 Thy Kingdom come. Thy Will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto MY FATHER, and your Father; AND [TO] MY GOD, and your God.

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and THE HEAD OF CHRIST [IS] GOD.

Is it "heresy" to point out the Truth that these crystal clear message are telling us for our own benefit?

I agree that it's never kind to lie to others, or to promote lies, regardless of whether those lies are out of ignorance or intentional.

Perhaps you should look at this thread (<= link), because the Bible is quite clear that Jesus is God. And you are welcome!

John 1 verse 1 + John 1 verse 14a~ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us.

 

[GWH]

I have had this experience as well. I have come to understand when the Holy Ghost/Spirit has begun to flow. There is nothing more rewarding then to look back at something I wrote and know it came directly from Him, the only part I played was my fingers did the typing.

I'm pretty sure you can attest to something. Upon rereading what "I've" written it's easy to recognize when I started to put in my "two cents." My keyboard backspace gets more use then I care to admit at times. LOL But, oh, the awesome things I've learned when His words are flowing out of me whether audibly or on "paper." Especially those times when I have to look up the definition of a word He had me write. The experience is miraculous. And best of all He gets all the credit.

Well I give God the credit for everything on the website.

 

[tourist]

One does not need to be a veterinarian to know a cat from a dog.

In a Gilligan's Island episode there was a bit of confusion about knowing a cat from a dog.

 

[Wansvic]

Just to clarify. Tongues WAS a sign. It was a sign to point to the validity of the message of the Lord Jesus Christ.

What we have today is a sign(tongues) that points to the validity of the message of men.

Tongues ALWAYS proved the validity of the message of the Lord Jesus Christ. Today? Men fight for their validity in THEIR use of tongues.

Just curious, what makes you think God does not use the same sign to validate the message of the Lord Jesus Christ today? Are not human beings of the same mentality and stubborness as they were in biblical times?

 

[Wansvic]

We are sealed and indwelt with the Spirit the moment we believe. Acts 16:31. A splash in water is just the first outward/visual acknowledgment of the inward reality......Our first witness to the world.

And I most certainly believe in Biblical tongues. I don't believe anyone on these forums has biblical tongues though.

And just to clarify.....If I went to the Amazon forest and met an undiscovered race of people with a language that was unknown. God could use me to speak their language....For HIS Gospel.

The idea a person receives the Holy Ghost the moment they believe is not accurate. See Apostle Paul question in Acts 19 and Jesus' in Luke 11:13. Also, Paul expressed people who trusted in Jesus were sealed with the Holy Ghost after hearing the word of truth the gospel of their salvation. The word of truth is first presented by Peter on the day of Pentecost. Those willing to repent and be water baptized in Jesus' name were promised they would receive the Holy Ghost. Not during water baptism but at some point as scripture attests. Acts 2:36-38, 8, 10, 19, etc.