Concerning the gift of tongues

[Dino246]

All gifts have ceased
1 Cor 13:8

You might want to give that a lot more thought. Do we presently know all things as we are known thoroughly by God Himself? No. Has some kind of "perfect" come that had not come when Paul wrote those words? No.

Will revelatory gifts cease at some point? Yes, clearly... because there will be no need for them. The need still exists, therefore the gifts still exist.

 

[wattie]

More historical info that shows the Corinth situation:

https://kimolsen.net/2018/06/08/tongues-and-the-mystery-religions-of-corinth/

 

[AFreeman]

You are promoting heresy by clearly implying that the Holy Spirit is not God. You have three options: repent and believe the truth (much preferred), cease promoting your heresy (shut up about your erroneous beliefs on the subject), or continue and be banned from this site.

It’s your choice, but there will be no second warning should you choose the latter.

You are promoting heresy by clearly implying that the Holy Spirit is not God. You have three options: repent and believe the truth (much preferred), cease promoting your heresy (shut up about your erroneous beliefs on the subject), or continue and be banned from this site.

It’s your choice, but there will be no second warning should you choose the latter.

Everything that has been personally shared here has been well-supported with Scripture, including quotations straight out of the mouth of Jesus, proving its veracity.

If your belief system and ego are so fragile that you feel you need to threaten others with banishment for sharing the truth, by falsely labeling the truth as "heresy" (Isa. 5:20-21), then so be it. Christ-Jesus Himself was met with the same satanic accusations (John 10:14-20).

Christ very plainly taught that He is the Holy Spirit, i.e. the connection/mediator (1 Tim. 2:5)/High-Priest (Heb. 6:20-7:4) between God and men.

John 14:15-18
14:15 If ye love me, KEEP my COMMANDments.
14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
14:17 [Even] the Spirit of Truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 16:7-15
16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the Truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
16:9 Of sin, because they believe not me;
16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of Truth, is come, he will guide you into all Truth: for he shall not speak of himself (John 7:16-17); but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.
16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show [it] unto you.
16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show [it] unto you.

Believe and obey Christ's True Teachings and learn The Way home (to heaven), or spend eternity in the Lake of Fire. This is the choice each of us have been given, since the beginning (Deut. 30:15-20). And the time to choose is rapidly running out (Rev. 20:10-15).

Peace be upon you and within you as you contemplate this decision.

 

[wolfwint]

I know a little German. You can write in German if you like. Well....maybe write in English too though for everyone else!


💒

If I write in german I will receive a post which told me this is an English speaking site. I got in the past. So I will try my best 😀

 

[wolfwint]

Yes, you have. And you continue to speak about the Pentacostel Fellowship as if you know what you are talking about. I have provided you with the information and valid statements of many Pentacostel denominations. You continue to interject false narratives and personal attacks. And again, I have called you about it.

Nope, i never said, that the Holy Spirit stopped giving spiritual gifts today!

 

[wolfwint]

First, miracles, wonders, and signs do not happen only in Pentecostal denominations. Yes, there are many of them. But that doesn't matter as Jesus himself had all of his witnesses. Still, those who hated him lied about them and even said he did it by the devil's power. Very familiar with what is done today. Those who had the proof provided just dismissed it. I am not trying to prove that what the Bible says is valid to sway one to agree, nope. That's not what I have been called to do.


My testimony and my experience no one can challenge. Yet you accept it or not.

Yes, they are also in charismatic movements.
The different is, that in charismatic/pentecostal doctrine it is claimed that these wonders and miracles are in the same way then during the apostolic time. This I questioning. Because obviously it is not!

What I believe is that God is still doing wonders and miracles today. Independ from any denomination. And obviously mainly in mission ministrie. For to show that he is the living God and his word is true.

Honestly, in a church of believers he need not to proof that he is the living God and that his word is true. Because a child of God knows this already.
Otherwise I would say something is wrong in the church.

 

[GWH]

That tells me nothing GWH.

It tells me the best scholars believe there is good reason to question its veracity.

 

[Wansvic]

1 Corinthians 14:6-11 KJV - Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?

8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. 11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.

So here is showing that tongues people understand is how God wants it

See verse 5 below for clarification of the verses you quoted.

Paul explains different purposes associated with speaking in tongues. One manifests in personal prayer and needs no interpretation. (14:2) Whereas, when in operation in the church setting, the message in an unknown tongue is to be interpretated by someone operating in the Gift of Interpretation. (14:5) The verses you note reference the problem when mixing the two:

Verse 5:
5 "I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

The rest of Paul's comment pertains to speaking in tongues without interpretation:
1 Corinthians 14:6-11 KJV - Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?

8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.

 

[ocean]

His claims of supernatural gifts are no different in validity then those he calls charlatans.

Sounds like I touched on a favorite teacher of yours. You might note that I offered nothing whatsoever in regards to his false teaching other than the fact I would not give him any credence. Direction with regards to his fallacies was nothing I said.

BTW, anyone doing even the simplest search will find that he is now discredited my most.

 

[ocean]

I actually need to apologize to you @ocean I kept calling you a him but your female my bad

I never thought otherwise

 

[ocean]

What discredits ocean is the same thing that discredits the charlatans. Ocean and the charlatans have nothing to prove the validity of their claims. Yet Ocean calls them "charlatans" so why should Ocean's claims be considered valid.

Oh they have been proven but as we all know, this is a forum and not a church so your constant effort to invalidate what myself or anyone else states, is without merit. You have a problem with scripture.

 

[ocean]

yes and ocean would be correct in not believing the claims of the charlatans but your disbelief goes against even scripture itself and so again I ask the following questions what evidence are you seeking and on what basis do you discredit ocean or was I correct in my summary of you?
besides your disbelief in the gift what discredits oceans claims?

He cannot prove he does not live in his parents basement. This is a forum and not real time in the physical world. He is just huffing and puffing to cover his own discomfort with scripture that he does not wish to follow. It's a real problem but only for those who are cessationists.

Another thing cessationists get very wrong, is their mistaken belief that only Pentecostals or Charismatics have any spiritual gifts. People in other denominations also speak in tongues or have other spiritual gifts but generally do not make a fuss about it considering the rest of their congregation may not have the assurance that the Holy Spirit has not changed His mo.

 

[ocean]

yes especially for what is to come it will be needed and we will need to be able to stand strong as well sadly though for people like trustandobey I am not sure they will be prepared all we can do is hope and pray because unbelief will be a huge problem in those days

You have brought up a truth here that is of utmost importance. What you say here is true. I could say more about this, but if you think some here dislike me now, they will want to physically assault me if I did.

 

[Magenta]

If your belief system and ego are so fragile that you feel you need to threaten others with banishment for sharing the truth

Dino was actually just letting you know the site policy, which is enacted upon those who insist on denying the Deity of Christ.

Rather than making it about his belief system and ego, you could accept it as a simple fact of site parameters.

Denying the Deity of Christ is the number one theological offence leading to being banned.

Letting you know what is and what is not allowed is a kindness.

 

[Blain]

You have brought up a truth here that is of utmost importance. What you say here is true. I could say more about this, but if you think some here dislike me now, they will want to physically assault me if I did.

Well I would be interested in what you have to say at least people may not like it but that often comes with speaking the truth

 

[ocean]

All gifts have ceased
1 Cor 13:8

Gee. Most cessationists only state 2 or 3 have ceased. But I mean if you are going to apply that kind of thinking at all, why not just dive right in and do away with them all?

 

[ocean]

Well I would be interested in what you have to say at least people may not like it but that often comes with speaking the truth

pm me

 

[Wansvic]

why do you think that is? is the gift of tongues just that rare or is it just so misunderstood that it is not ever used correctly?
With all the fake tongues I have expereienced I would by all means think it is not a gift for today but I have a few times seen and tasted the real thing myself so I know it is real but why is it so rare I wonder?

I believe manifestation of tongues is so rare today because people are told they receive the Holy Ghost the moment they confess belief in Jesus. A couple scriptures that reveal this is not true is Paul's question in Acts 19:2, Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed? And, it was Jesus Himself that said that God will give the Holy Ghost to those who ask. (Luke 11:13) Think about it, to whom were Jesus words directed? Believers. (Luke 11:13).

As uncomfortable as it may be to some, the truth is, many who believe in Jesus have yet to receive the Holy Ghost. The ability to speak in genuine unknown tongues manifests directly from the indwelling presence of the Holy Ghost as revealed in Acts 2:4 and confirmed elsewhere in scripture. (Acts 10, 19)

 

[ocean]

I believe manifestation of tongues is so rare today because people are told they receive the Holy Ghost the moment they confess belief in Jesus. A couple scriptures that reveal this is not true is Paul's question in Acts 19:2, Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed? And, it was Jesus Himself that said that God will give the Holy Ghost to those who ask. (Luke 11:13) Think about it, to whom were Jesus words directed? Believers. (Luke 11:13).

As uncomfortable as it may be to some, the truth is, many who believe in Jesus have yet to receive the Holy Ghost. The ability to speak in genuine unknown tongues manifests directly from the indwelling presence of the Holy Ghost as revealed in Acts 2:4 and confirmed elsewhere in scripture. (Acts 10, 19)

Right. But we are sealed with the Holy Spirit when we believe. I hope you are not saying if we do not speak in tongues or have been filled different from salvation itself, we are not saved. I know you believe if we are not water baptized we are not saved. Neither belief is found in scripture. I have seen your posts in other threads so I hope you are not presenting something other than what is actually in scripture here

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, Eph. 1:13

 

[Wansvic]

Well it sure seems to do thast but it isn't me writing it is the holy spirit doing it I just type the words that come forth is him
so I am just the tool that he uses but he is the one who speaks through me. in fact I wrote a very prophetic one not long ago

I have had this experience as well. I have come to understand when the Holy Ghost/Spirit has begun to flow. There is nothing more rewarding then to look back at something I wrote and know it came directly from Him, the only part I played was my fingers did the typing.

I'm pretty sure you can attest to something. Upon rereading what "I've" written it's easy to recognize when I started to put in my "two cents." My keyboard backspace gets more use then I care to admit at times. LOL But, oh, the awesome things I've learned when His words are flowing out of me whether audibly or on "paper." Especially those times when I have to look up the definition of a word He had me write. The experience is miraculous. And best of all He gets all the credit.