Understanding God’s election
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Yes, until if and when I see something completely different, fallen man has the ability to choose to believe or reject the Gospel. The rebirth follows. I have one twist I've considered for some time related to John6 that works within the flow I see. I think it's a potential solution to a few issues we argue about. I'll pass on discussing it for now.
I have explained many times how hell is just and loving but will do so again if you missed it. God's supreme eternal act of love is the sacrifice of Christ on the cross.
Did you ever wonder why God had them destroyed? God isn't mean. There's always a good reason why He determines judgement on people.
Yes, consider the case of the Gideonites.
I believe election is scriptural and there is no need to run from the wording of scripture. God clearly elects. The argument is whether He elects people or elects people to be something. I believe it's both. I don't see how one can be elected in Christ and not end up being in Christ. As well, Romans 8:29 speaks of those whom God foreknew and not what God foreknew they would do.
I don't believe in double election because I can't find it in scripture. I do believe if God does nothing an individual will perish, but God not acting isn't the same as God acting. Men are very capable of fitting themselves for destruction.
Is there a difference? I believe there is, but others say it's just semantics.
Red Herring.Read up on Midianites. Why are you siding with and defending God's enemies????
So, the unborn and infants deserved to be ripped from the womb and bashed against rocks. And the first born in Egypt deserved to die as the angel of death passed through?
Well at least it's out that you openly admit that you don't think salvation is offered to all.
Except that the Bible says that it IS.
Did you forget this verse??? EVERYONE KNOWS THIS VERSE!!!
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
Then there are others....
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
Acts 17:30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,
Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.
1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 Timothy 2:1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.
There are so many verses in the Bible about that.
Moreover, I recall the Old Testament has given accounts of non-Jews that willingly came to embrace the God of the Jews and were not rejected.
You can do a Bible study of that yourself, but here is what Bible search summarized which you can look up yourself (click on link to see actual page):
AI Overview
In the Old Testament, several non-Jewish individuals, often referred to as Gentiles, are portrayed as followers of God, including Melchizedek, Jethro, Rahab, Ruth, and the "mixed multitude" who accompanied the Israelites out of Egypt.
Here's a closer look at some of these examples:
- Melchizedek: This king of Salem (Jerusalem) is described as a "priest of God Most High" and is mentioned in Genesis 14:18, indicating a reverence for God even outside the context of the Jewish people.
- Jethro: Moses's father-in-law, a Midianite priest, is depicted as a wise and God-fearing man who advised Moses on leading the Israelites.
- Rahab: An Amorite woman living in Jericho, Rahab hid the Israelite spies and was spared when the city was conquered, demonstrating her faith and obedience to God.
- Ruth: A Moabite woman, Ruth remained with her Jewish mother-in-law, Naomi, and declared that Naomi's God was her God, too, becoming a part of the lineage of Jesus.
- "Mixed Multitude": In Exodus 12:38, a group of people who were not Israelites but who feared the Lord and joined themselves to Israel are referred to as the "mixed multitude", who were included in the exodus from Egypt.
Wow, why would you not try to understand why God decreed that for the Midianites? Isn't God suppose to be your Lord and Savior??? I thought you loved Him???
Interesting question, paired with how so many trumpet something that is nowhere stated in Scripture...
it adds up to quite the conundrum!
I understand you cannot answer. That's OK.Wow, why would you not try to understand why God decreed that for the Midianites? Isn't God suppose to be your Lord and Savior??? I thought you loved Him???
God Bless.
I posted quite a lot about what he asked for. That's why it took so long to write the verses - as the WHOLE Bible constantly talks about saving the whole world. The questions is how can HE ignore what scripture plainly states? And you agree with him? Lol!
Hey, it's your funeral. The answers are all in the Bible. I wanted to give you a chance to learn from the Bible itself, but it's clear you don't want to. This is one of the reasons why you're a Calvinist - they only want to read into the Bible what they want.
What I said had zero to do with you. Blabber on all you like...I posted quite a lot about what he asked for. That's why it took so long to write the verses - as the WHOLE Bible constantly talks about saving the whole world. The questions is how can HE ignore what scripture plainly states? And you agree with him? Lol!
He was replying to me. And you replied to his reply to me. So I thought you were making an off-handed comment toward me.
So what does your reply to him mean? Because he was implying I was ignoring scripture when I hadn't at all. Do you really believe that salvation is only offered to a few people and not all? Because it is offered to all is what the Bible says. Not everyone will take it, but it IS offered to all, even in the Old Testament.
You can't teach what you do not know.Hey, it's your funeral. The answers are all in the Bible. I wanted to give you a chance to learn from the Bible itself, but it's clear you don't want to. This is one of the reasons why you're a Calvinist - they only want to read into the Bible what they want.
I'm not Calvinist.
I won't teach someone who isn't willing to learn.
I've read your beliefs and you can say you're not but it's not important anyway.
And yet you still couldn't show that everyone on the planet now has heard the gospel. Neither can you show that this is true throughout history. Simply because God has gone from dealing predominantly with one nation to evangelizing the world doesn't mean He is doing so in all places at all times. In fact, I demonstrated that this is not the case. You still have yet to demonstrate otherwise. You still have opportunity to do so. Or you can investigate further what God is actually teaching in the verses you shared.Well at least it's out that you openly admit that you don't think salvation is offered to all.
Except that the Bible says that it IS.
Did you forget this verse??? EVERYONE KNOWS THIS VERSE!!!
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
Then there are others....
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
Acts 17:30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,
Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.
1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 Timothy 2:1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.
There are so many verses in the Bible about that.
Moreover, I recall the Old Testament has given accounts of non-Jews that willingly came to embrace the God of the Jews and were not rejected.
You can do a Bible study of that yourself, but here is what Bible search summarized which you can look up yourself (click on link to see actual page):
AI Overview
In the Old Testament, several non-Jewish individuals, often referred to as Gentiles, are portrayed as followers of God, including Melchizedek, Jethro, Rahab, Ruth, and the "mixed multitude" who accompanied the Israelites out of Egypt.
Here's a closer look at some of these examples:
You always try to put yourself out there like your Bible knowledge is on par with @Pilgrimshope and others whose posts I've benefited from, but yours really isn't.
- Melchizedek: This king of Salem (Jerusalem) is described as a "priest of God Most High" and is mentioned in Genesis 14:18, indicating a reverence for God even outside the context of the Jewish people.
- Jethro: Moses's father-in-law, a Midianite priest, is depicted as a wise and God-fearing man who advised Moses on leading the Israelites.
- Rahab: An Amorite woman living in Jericho, Rahab hid the Israelite spies and was spared when the city was conquered, demonstrating her faith and obedience to God.
- Ruth: A Moabite woman, Ruth remained with her Jewish mother-in-law, Naomi, and declared that Naomi's God was her God, too, becoming a part of the lineage of Jesus.
- "Mixed Multitude": In Exodus 12:38, a group of people who were not Israelites but who feared the Lord and joined themselves to Israel are referred to as the "mixed multitude", who were included in the exodus from Egypt.
I'm not surprised you're ignoring all the verses I posted that show God offers salvation to ALL and not just a few.
Also, it's not about just the gospel - it's about the inherent knowledge that God exists which God has put in every person ever created. It's right in the first chapter of Romans.
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
So even people who have never heard the gospel will still have to answer to God for how they react to this inherent knowledge of His existence that He gives to all of us past, present and future. ALL of us will have to give an account to Him. This is why you can't blame Him when most people reject Him - it was their choice the whole time and not Him forcing them.
But you should know that if you're so well-versed like you pretend to be.
Thank you. That's why you aren't able to teach anyone.I won't teach someone who isn't willing to learn.
I've read your beliefs and you can say you're not but it's not important anyway.
Thanks again.