Must one obey Jesus to be saved?

[Believer08]

Romans 1:16
The gospel is the power unto salvation to everyone who believes it.
Romans 10:16...
Isaiah is quoted that obedience to the gospel is what?
Who hath believed our report?

Before Jesus ascended into heaven, He said Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned (Mk. 16:15-16).

He said “and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.” (Lk. 24:27).

So, what is the response and what does that involve? We find that how in the first gospel sermon under the NT beginning in Jerusalem on Pentecost, just like Jesus said.

In Acts 2:21, Peter declared that whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved..and in verse 38 he tells them how to do that after they asked "what shall we do?" (v37). Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (v38-41)

Paul explained how he called on the name of the Lord in Acts 22:16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’

In those context, appealing to the calling of salvation of the Lord by repenting and being baptized for the remission of sins to have your sins washed away by the blood of Christ.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is God’s power to save the lost

Romans 1:16 NKJV

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

This is the gospel of Jesus Christ:
1 Corinthians 15:3-4 NKJV

For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, [4] and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

This is how one obeys the gospel of Jesus Christ:

Romans 6:3-6 NKJV
Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? [4] Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. [5] For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, [6] knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Before Jesus ascended into heaven, He said Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned (Mk. 16:15-16).

He said “and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.” (Lk. 24:27).

So, what is the response and what does that involve? We find that how in the first gospel sermon under the NT beginning in Jerusalem on Pentecost, just like Jesus said.

In Acts 2:21, Peter declared that whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved..and in verse 38 he tells them how to do that after they asked "what shall we do?" (v37). Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (v38-41)

Paul explained how he called on the name of the Lord in Acts 22:16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’

In those context, appealing to the calling of salvation of the Lord by repenting and being baptized for the remission of sins to have your sins washed away by the blood of Christ.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is God’s power to save the lost

Romans 1:16 NKJV

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

This is the gospel of Jesus Christ:
1 Corinthians 15:3-4 NKJV

For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, [4] and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

This is how one obeys the gospel of Jesus Christ:

Romans 6:3-6 NKJV
Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? [4] Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. [5] For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, [6] knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

I decided that when there are 100 clear verses in a topic that are clear and one or few that seem perhaps to be contradictory, I should go with the clear meanings. Perhaps with further reading the less clear passages, the holy Spirit will provide more insight later.

How many people did Jesus baptized?
If He required the list to be baptized in water to be saved, and He never baptized anyone, then that would mean that He never saved anyone IF baptismal regeneration were true.
Think about it.

 

[Believer08]

I decided that when there are 100 clear verses in a topic that are clear and one or few that seem perhaps to be contradictory, I should go with the clear meanings. Perhaps with further reading the less clear passages, the holy Spirit will provide more insight later.

How many people did Jesus baptized?
If He required the list to be baptized in water to be saved, and He never baptized anyone, then that would mean that He never saved anyone IF baptismal regeneration were true.
Think about it.

John 4:1-2 Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),

(Jesus was baptizing people through His disciples)

Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38 are very clear to understand.

I take Jesus at His word when He commanded baptism as part of salvation to born again (Jn. 3:5; Mk. 16:16). I also take Jesus at His word when He had the Holy Spirit to reveal to Peter the purpose of baptism on Pentecost in the name Jesus for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38). I also take Jesus at His word when He had the Holy Spirit to inspire Paul to record how baptism is part of faith (Gal. 3:26-27; Col. 2:12).

I don’t believe in baptism regeneration. I believe in baptism for the remission of sins, just as Christ taught by His authority (Acts 2:38). Second, Jesus did command baptism throughout the world (Mk. 16:16), and it began on Pentecost and went throughout. In every conversion in Acts, they were baptized for the reasons Jesus gave.

Jesus also said But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? (Lk. 6:46). One of those things is to be baptized for the remission of sins.

Is Jesus really one’s Lord if they reject what He says about baptism?

Think about it.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

John 4:1-2 Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),

(Jesus was baptizing people through His disciples)

Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38 are very clear to understand.

I take Jesus at His word when He commanded baptism as part of salvation to born again (Jn. 3:5; Mk. 16:16). I also take Jesus at His word when He had the Holy Spirit to reveal to Peter the purpose of baptism on Pentecost in the name Jesus for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38). I also take Jesus at His word when He had the Holy Spirit to inspire Paul to record how baptism is part of faith (Gal. 3:26-27; Col. 2:12).

I don’t believe in baptism regeneration. I believe in baptism for the remission of sins, just as Christ taught by His authority (Acts 2:38). Second, Jesus did command baptism throughout the world (Mk. 16:16), and it began on Pentecost and went throughout. In every conversion in Acts, they were baptized for the reasons Jesus gave.

Jesus also said But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? (Lk. 6:46). One of those things is to be baptized for the remission of sins.

Is Jesus really one’s Lord if they reject what He says about baptism?

Think about it.

Paul didn't get hardly anyone saved since he only baptized a few .

17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

 

[Believer08]

Paul didn't get hardly anyone saved since he only baptized a few .

17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

That letter was written to people who had been baptized. Paul reminds them in 1 Cor. 12:13.

Same for the letter to the Romans (6:3-4), the Galatians (Gal. 3:26-27), the Ephesians (4:4-5), the Colossians (Col. 2:12), etc etc.

If I was called by a church to preach for them, I’d be sent not to baptize, but to preach the gospel (1 Cor. 1:17). My job there would be to preach the gospel, while someone else (most likely their regular minister) would be the one who did the water baptizing.

Was it necessary for Peter to be the baptizer to about 3,000 souls on Pentecost (Acts 2:41)? His job there was to preach the gospel, and upon being convicted by the Spirit’s message (Jn 16:8), about 3,000 souls repented and were baptized for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38).

Why then would Paul say baptism isn’t necessary for salvation, when he told them they were baptized into one body (1 Cor. 12:13)? Paul did not want people to follow man, but rather Christ. 1 Cor. 1:12-13 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? He was writing to people who had already been baptized (Acts 18:8; 1 Cor. 12:13).

He is not saying water baptism isn’t necessary for salvation, because he would be contradicting himself, as he told the Corinthians “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body” (1 Cor. 12:13). By telling them it is “by one Spirit”, he is telling them that it is by the authority of the one Spirit —the Spirit’s message, that the Corinthians had been baptized into one body. That is in perfect harmony with Acts 2:38, 47, Col. 1:13.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.

Col. 1:13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,
14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

In John 14:17, 15:26, and 16:13, Jesus referred to the Spirit as "the Spirit of truth." He was to bring to the apostles “remembrance all things" that is the words of Christ, and "guide them unto all truth" (Jn. 16:13). Through these roles, the Spirit would use words to "convict" the world of sin (Acts 2:37; Heb. 4:12).

The Spirit’s message led them to be “all baptized into one body” as The Holy Spirit revealed the inspired truth of what to say do to be saved (Acts 2:4, 21, 38). So, to be in the one body, you must be baptized into it.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

That letter was written to people who had been baptized. Paul reminds them in 1 Cor. 12:13.

Same for the letter to the Romans (6:3-4), the Galatians (Gal. 3:26-27), the Ephesians (4:4-5), the Colossians (Col. 2:12), etc etc.

If I was called by a church to preach for them, I’d be sent not to baptize, but to preach the gospel (1 Cor. 1:17). My job there would be to preach the gospel, while someone else (most likely their regular minister) would be the one who did the water baptizing.

Was it necessary for Peter to be the baptizer to about 3,000 souls on Pentecost (Acts 2:41)? His job there was to preach the gospel, and upon being convicted by the Spirit’s message (Jn 16:8), about 3,000 souls repented and were baptized for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38).

Why then would Paul say baptism isn’t necessary for salvation, when he told them they were baptized into one body (1 Cor. 12:13)? Paul did not want people to follow man, but rather Christ. 1 Cor. 1:12-13 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? He was writing to people who had already been baptized (Acts 18:8; 1 Cor. 12:13).

He is not saying water baptism isn’t necessary for salvation, because he would be contradicting himself, as he told the Corinthians “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body” (1 Cor. 12:13). By telling them it is “by one Spirit”, he is telling them that it is by the authority of the one Spirit —the Spirit’s message, that the Corinthians had been baptized into one body. That is in perfect harmony with Acts 2:38, 47, Col. 1:13.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.

Col. 1:13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,
14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

In John 14:17, 15:26, and 16:13, Jesus referred to the Spirit as "the Spirit of truth." He was to bring to the apostles “remembrance all things" that is the words of Christ, and "guide them unto all truth" (Jn. 16:13). Through these roles, the Spirit would use words to "convict" the world of sin (Acts 2:37; Heb. 4:12).

The Spirit’s message led them to be “all baptized into one body” as The Holy Spirit revealed the inspired truth of what to say do to be saved (Acts 2:4, 21, 38). So, to be in the one body, you must be baptized into it.

This is what he said to the church he started at Corinth.

14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

He wasn't impressing upon them their obedience to water baptism.
What was important to Christ?

Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Baptism is only figurative of the import Sacrifice of the Savior.

 

[Believer08]

This is what he said to the church he started at Corinth.

14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

He wasn't impressing upon them their obedience to water baptism.
What was important to Christ?

Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Baptism is only figurative of the import Sacrifice of the Savior.

That letter was written to people who had already been baptized (Acts 18:8), as he reminds them of it (1 Cor. 12:13). I explained why he said that why he did to them in 1 Cor. 1:17. Has nothing to do with eliminating baptism, or else he’d be contradicting his own conversion that he recounted in Acts 22:16, as well as contradicting how the Corinthians had all been baptized (1 Cor. 12:13). He’d also be contradicting all the other letters he wrote on it.

Baptism is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38).
Baptism is an act of faith whereby we experience the grace and power of God (Col. 2:12). The saving power is not in the water but in the Lord (1 Peter 3:21).”
Baptism is linked to grace, because: it is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), it is where the blood of Christ washes away a lost sinners’ sins (Acts 22:16), saves by the resurrection (1 Peter 3:21), is an operation/working of God (Col. 2:12) etc etc. That right there is all forms of grace.

In baptism we declare our complete dependence upon God. In baptism we make "an appeal to God for a clear conscience" (I Peter 3:21). Baptism reveals an absolute trust in God. He saves us by His mercy and justifies us by His grace.

Paul calls baptism God’s work rather than our own: buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead (Col 2:12). Peter tells us that baptism now saves you not the removal of the dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience (1 Pet 3:21, NASB). Notice that God is deeply involved in the process of salvation through baptism. He is the one doing the work of salvation, we are only obeying His command and giving our appeal to God for a good conscience through baptism.

Baptism is a part of salvation by God’s grace. We humbly appeal ourselves upon God's love, mercy, and grace when we are baptized.

 

[GWH]

How does our cooperation change us? Only God can change our corrupted image to be like Christ's. Our cooperation will quicken or delay the process, but it cannot effectuate the process.

What ability does man possess to change their fallen, corrupted nature? And if man possessed such an ability, why does he need God to do so?

Sinners need God to enable them to seek/find/believe/repent/be saved/be changed/be transformed/be resurrected--but some resist His enabling/grace.

 

[GWH]

That letter was written to people who had already been baptized (Acts 18:8), as he reminds them of it (1 Cor. 12:13). I explained why he said that why he did to them in 1 Cor. 1:17. Has nothing to do with eliminating baptism, or else he’d be contradicting his own conversion that he recounted in Acts 22:16, as well as contradicting how the Corinthians had all been baptized (1 Cor. 12:13). He’d also be contradicting all the other letters he wrote on it.

Baptism is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38).
Baptism is an act of faith whereby we experience the grace and power of God (Col. 2:12). The saving power is not in the water but in the Lord (1 Peter 3:21).”
Baptism is linked to grace, because: it is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), it is where the blood of Christ washes away a lost sinners’ sins (Acts 22:16), saves by the resurrection (1 Peter 3:21), is an operation/working of God (Col. 2:12) etc etc. That right there is all forms of grace.

In baptism we declare our complete dependence upon God. In baptism we make "an appeal to God for a clear conscience" (I Peter 3:21). Baptism reveals an absolute trust in God. He saves us by His mercy and justifies us by His grace.

Paul calls baptism God’s work rather than our own: buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead (Col 2:12). Peter tells us that baptism now saves you not the removal of the dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience (1 Pet 3:21, NASB). Notice that God is deeply involved in the process of salvation through baptism. He is the one doing the work of salvation, we are only obeying His command and giving our appeal to God for a good conscience through baptism.

Baptism is a part of salvation by God’s grace. We humbly appeal ourselves upon God's love, mercy, and grace when we are baptized.

Paul affirmed Spirit baptism in 1CR 12:13, he commanded faith for the remission of sins (EPH 2:8-9), and he indicated in COL 2:11-14 that water baptism signified or portrayed the circumcision that was not done by the hands of men, which is what 1PT 3:21 also implies. IOW, outward water baptism is a work that is part of the didache, whereas inward Spirit baptism coincides with faith in the kerygma.

 

[studier]

Romans 1:16
The gospel is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes it.
Romans 10:16...
Isaiah is quoted that obedience to the gospel is what?
Who hath believed our report?

Most will preach Christ's death, burial and resurrection. Few actually provide us with the proper response. In giving the improper response, they are disobeying the Lord.
If He told us once, He told us a hundred times.

To the lost to be saved, the obedience is the command to quit believing in the Jews false religion of keeping the law aka "repent of sins" to use the modern phrase. They were commanded to reconsider, change their minds to believe in Jesus instead.

Interesting how so many must disregard that God commands belief (and as you say, against unbelief) so they can negate the fact that belief is obedience (and unbelief is disobedience).

IMO their mistake is driven by immediately and only equating obedience with work, when the Text and basic logic first equate obedience with faith. Also, IMO, this is the result of pushing Faith Alone too far and thereby ending up misrepresenting what Biblical Faith in God actually is and includes.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Interesting how so many must disregard that God commands belief (and as you say, against unbelief) so they can negate the fact that belief is obedience (and unbelief is disobedience).

IMO their mistake is driven by immediately and only equating obedience with work, when the Text and basic logic first equate obedience with faith. Also, IMO, this is the result of pushing Faith Alone too far and thereby ending up misrepresenting what Biblical Faith in God actually is and includes.

When reading a passage, I look at the context ,who the letter or book was written to, parallel passages just to get the overall perspective.
From there it is often clear.

For example, too many look at baptism to be water baptism if they come from a background where their pastor teaches baptism is a regenerative ritual like the Catholic sacrament.
Then the restorationists and many reformers own that same belief, distance themselves from the term sacrament.

Then I noticed them often not distinguishing it from the possibility of Spirit baptism.
Sometimes the passage is clearly distinguishing the kind of baptism. Other times it's not, but I won't make it hinge on ones eternal destiny as Restorationists like the Mormons do.

 

[mailmandan]

I decided that when there are 100 clear verses in a topic that are clear and one or few that seem perhaps to be contradictory, I should go with the clear meanings. Perhaps with further reading the less clear passages, the holy Spirit will provide more insight later.

Exactly. If we have numerous verses that clearly teach, we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications" (Luke 7:50; 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 4:4; 10:4; 10:43; 13:39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6, 9: 5:1-2; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-14, 26; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:4, 13 etc..) but then we have a handful of verses that "on the surface" appear to contradict those verses by "adding works" to salvation through belief/faith and if we run with the latter, then we end up contradicting those numerous clear passages of scripture by our own personal eisegesis and there are no contradictions in God's Word.

There are a handful of alleged proof texts that certain people use to try and prove that baptism is required for salvation, yet after a careful examination of each of those texts in context will show that none of them prove that baptism is absolutely required for salvation, though they do prove that baptism was an assumed initiatory response to the gospel of salvation. In other words, those texts prove only that baptism is regularly associated with conversion and salvation, rather than absolutely required for salvation.

These Gentiles in Acts 10 received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were manifesting the spiritual gift of tongues from the Holy Spirit (which is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) after believing the gospel but before being water baptized. (Acts 10:43-47) Now baptism was not considered an "optional extra" for these Gentiles; it was a command (Acts 10:48) that they were expected to obey. However, it was not obedience to this command that saved them, but their believing in Christ for salvation. (Acts 10:43)

 

[Karlon]

yes! imagine not obeying John 3:5!!! no, it is not a command because God, Jesus & the Holy Spirit are "presented" in the Bible, never forced. but if you do not abide in the word, you'll end up in hell! how about Jeremiah 33:3. if you don't call on the name of Jesus He may not show you great & mighty things. then, by course, the great tithing issue, Malachi: God says "....return to Me I will return to you.....", then in Malachi 3:10 God says, "......& prove Me now herewith if I will not pour out a blessing......" i didn't check, but as far as i know, this is the only time God says for us to "test" Him. well, if we don't obey His word we are lost & will live a sad life.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Exactly. If we have numerous verses that clearly teach, we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications" (Luke 7:50; 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 4:4; 10:4; 10:43; 13:39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6, 9: 5:1-2; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-14, 26; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:4, 13 etc..) but then we have a handful of verses that "on the surface" appear to contradict those verses by "adding works" to salvation through belief/faith and if we run with the latter, then we end up contradicting those numerous clear passages of scripture by our own personal eisegesis and there are no contradictions in God's Word.

There are a handful of alleged proof texts that certain people use to try and prove that baptism is required for salvation, yet after a careful examination of each of those texts in context will show that none of them prove that baptism is absolutely required for salvation, though they do prove that baptism was an assumed initiatory response to the gospel of salvation. In other words, those texts prove only that baptism is regularly associated with conversion and salvation, rather than absolutely required for salvation.

These Gentiles in Acts 10 received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were manifesting the spiritual gift of tongues from the Holy Spirit (which is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) after believing the gospel but before being water baptized. (Acts 10:43-47) Now baptism was not considered an "optional extra" for these Gentiles; it was a command (Acts 10:48) that they were expected to obey. However, it was not obedience to this command that saved them, but their believing in Christ for salvation. (Acts 10:43)

You must've had your coffee and Bible study this morning. I couldn't have said it better Dan.

That example in Acts 10 distinguishes the work of the Holy Spirit in the brand new believers from the water baptism that followed. Talk about a clear description, there it is.

I was just reading I Corinthians 12:13 because someone told me it was a proof text that the Corinthians were water baptized.

13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

That describes what the Holy Spirit does, even to the carnal church members who were saved.
I don't see water in the context like some groups do.

Jesus likewise told the disciples what to expect as He spoke to them for the last time. Acts 1:5

5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

The point is clear that believers He was talking to would receive the Holy Spirit. We should look for this in subsequent passages. When we do, the example of Acts 10 you gave makes sense.

Gary Haring told me, when the plain sense makes common sense, seek no other sense lest it becomes nonsense.

Makes sense to me too.

 

[Cameron143]

Sinners need God to enable them to seek/find/believe/repent/be saved/be changed/be transformed/be resurrected--but some resist His enabling/grace.

All resist before God manifests His grace.

 

[GWH]

All resist before God manifests His grace.

Yes, although I must say that I was raised in accordance with God's plan A for parenting,
so God manifested His grace very early and thus I had minimal resistance
(actually none that I remember; only needed enough courage to walk the aisle :^)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Exactly. If we have numerous verses that clearly teach, we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications" (Luke 7:50; 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 4:4; 10:4; 10:43; 13:39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6, 9: 5:1-2; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-14, 26; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:4, 13 etc..) but then we have a handful of verses that "on the surface" appear to contradict those verses by "adding works" to salvation through belief/faith and if we run with the latter, then we end up contradicting those numerous clear passages of scripture by our own personal eisegesis and there are no contradictions in God's Word.

There are a handful of alleged proof texts that certain people use to try and prove that baptism is required for salvation, yet after a careful examination of each of those texts in context will show that none of them prove that baptism is absolutely required for salvation, though they do prove that baptism was an assumed initiatory response to the gospel of salvation. In other words, those texts prove only that baptism is regularly associated with conversion and salvation, rather than absolutely required for salvation.

These Gentiles in Acts 10 received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were manifesting the spiritual gift of tongues from the Holy Spirit (which is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) after believing the gospel but before being water baptized. (Acts 10:43-47) Now baptism was not considered an "optional extra" for these Gentiles; it was a command (Acts 10:48) that they were expected to obey. However, it was not obedience to this command that saved them, but their believing in Christ for salvation. (Acts 10:43)

For it is by GRACE we have been saved ( a completed action.) solely by the grace of God

Through Faith - (God will not force his gift on us, he desires we freely want it and ask for it.. )

Not of works - (not because we earned it by doing good deeds. or following traditions or obeying certain commands)

Lest anyone should boast - (take credit for saving themselves. Boast in self not God. Claim credit for doing the work of salvation)

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes!! One must obey Him (Heb. 5:9).

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him

What’s the negative of this?

If one does not obey, they will not have eternal salvation!!

When one becomes a Christian are they obeying Christ or disobeying?

Rom. 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

It was only when they obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine that they had been made free from sin!!

Being then made free from sin.

When were they then made free from sin?

When they obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine!!!

Yes you know Roman’s 6 ? Look what doctrine he’s talking about that they had obeyed which set them free from sins dominion

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬


it’s hard here to ever get anywhere because instead of learning what baptism means to us we instead argue over whether baptism is really doctrine …..so the part where we learn what things are like baptism when we could just read and learn and pray and understand what it mea for those who do it

“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

instead lol we say “ I have faith I don’t need to know any of that I’m already saved “

 

[Pilgrimshope]

All resist before God manifests His grace.

“And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men. And straightway they forsook their nets, and followed him.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[GWH]

I decided that when there are 100 clear verses in a topic that are clear and one or few that seem perhaps to be contradictory, I should go with the clear meanings. Perhaps with further reading the less clear passages, the holy Spirit will provide more insight later.

How many people did Jesus baptized?
If He required the list to be baptized in water to be saved, and He never baptized anyone, then that would mean that He never saved anyone IF baptismal regeneration were true.
Think about it.

That is good logic.