The problem of the statement of “never saved to begin with”

[GWH]

Or,you have 15 passages to learn and understand. God is not a man that he should lie.

Why would we,who can and do,presume to insist God's words don't really mean what he said? And then died to reiterate and seal eternally

Believe you can lose all God did for you on the cross.

Please don't try to get me to follow you.
I follow eternal God. And he says you are mistaken.

Yes, God does not lie, and you have not explained why you think the 16 Scriptures are lies or do not mean what they say.

Please never use "lose"; the truth being discussed is "repudiate".

It is good to believe God, and He says the 16 Scriptures.

BTW, I understand your goad (ACTS 26:14), because I was raised to believe OSAS.

 

[TrustandObey]

again, prove it.

You can not say

1. We must cooperate with God (works)
2. We must obey Gods commands (works)
3. We must continue in the faith according to our own power, as apposed to be kept in the faith by God and his power (because he never fails us)
4. Etc Etc Etc

or you will lose, or in the end, not be saved because you failed to do these things.

And claim your not trying to merit salvation

prove to me you have not claimed these things (at least 2 of the three)

or you prove that my allegations are in truth

This is your problem.

You do not understand what merit means.

merit
noun
a praiseworthy quality : virtue
character or conduct deserving reward, honor, or esteem
a person's qualities, actions, etc. regarded as indicating what the person deserves to receive

To obey the Lord is humbling not praiseworthy.

Get over yourself and stop charging people as attempting to earn their salvation.

 

[studier]

again, prove it.

You can not say

1. We must cooperate with God (works)
2. We must obey Gods commands (works)
3. We must continue in the faith according to our own power, as apposed to be kept in the faith by God and his power (because he never fails us)
4. Etc Etc Etc

or you will lose, or in the end, not be saved because you failed to do these things.

And claim your not trying to merit salvation

prove to me you have not claimed these things (at least 2 of the three)

or you prove that my allegations are in truth

I read, responded to and retained your statements regarding co-operate. As I understand you, you take the position that Christians do not do any work together with God in the salvation process once they have entered into it through Faith-Obedience apart from any meritorious works they can boast in or apart from any works of law.

I disagree and am prepared anytime and have offered to get deeper into some Scripture to discuss the matter. Your avoidance is clear.

And once again, you continue to assert the absurd and dishonest allegation of "according to our own power" yet I've seen no one here present such a position. I know I haven't.

You're also stuck on the concept of merit, which correlates to your dishonest repetitive allegation of self-power.

You're using tactics and the tactics you're using decry your inabilities.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

This is your problem.

You do not understand what merit means.

merit
noun
a praiseworthy quality : virtue
character or conduct deserving reward, honor, or esteem
a person's qualities, actions, etc. regarded as indicating what the person deserves to receive

To obey the Lord is humbling not praiseworthy.

Get over yourself and stop charging people as attempting to earn their salvation.

Merit is something you do to "merit" or earn what you worked for.

I work at my job to merit a wage
Olympians work hard to MERIT a reward
Kids can work hard to MERIT their parents approval.

I can go on and on.,

but Paul speaks of this also. a wage

Romans 4:
4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness


I think every one here who is open can see you belong to the work. or merit or wage group. not the faith apart from works group

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I read, responded to and retained your statements regarding co-operate. As I understand you, you take the position that Christians do not do any work together with God in the salvation process once they have entered into it through Faith-Obedience apart from any meritorious works they can boast in or apart from any works of law.

what is the context. do we do these works to stay saved or keep from losing them, or do we do them out of love and gratitude.

You think you are going to twist again, you are mistaken.

I disagree and am prepared anytime and have offered to get deeper into some Scripture to discuss the matter. Your avoidance is clear.

Says the one who avoided even telling us for a few days what work we were required to do. until you finally said we must obey Gods commands.

And once again, you continue to assert the absurd and dishonest allegation of "according to our own power" yet I've seen no one here present such a position. I know I haven't.

You do not see alot.. Which is prety sad.

You're also stuck on the concept of merit, which correlates to your dishonest repetitive allegation of self-power.

I am not suck on the concept of merit. those who think we must work to attain final salvation are stuck on merit.

I am stick on grace, and exposing those stuck on merit

You're using tactics and the tactics you're using decry your inabilities.

Yawn.

Your pide is deep.. Try some humility for once.

 

[HeIsHere]

NKJ Matthew 14:30 But when he saw that the wind was boisterous1, he was afraid; and beginning to sink he cried out, saying, "Lord, save me!"

So then you do realize that the concept of deliverance is applied in various ways.

Certainly at that moment physical salvation, as in not physically dying, was in view, correct?

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

That means it’s entirely possible for someone to believe they are saved but not be…

BINGO!!!

Probably 90% of what people CALL "FAITH" isn't Biblical FAITH AT ALL. "Belief" (mental assent) doesn't save - only FAITH with the attributes called out at Heb 11:1, leads to a Born Again State. "Belief" only results in useless "Religious activity".

If so, then when would they know for sure???

WHen the Holy Spirit bears witness with THEIR spirit that they are a child of God (Rom 8:16). obviously a RELTIONSHIP with God at a personal lever is indicated.

If someone departs from their faith, they may feel a loss of that assurance

My experience is that God DOES send wake-up calls - sometimes pretty BRUTAL ONES, to get our attention, and lead us to repentance, and restoration.

 

[studier]

So then you do realize that the concept of deliverance is applied in various ways.

Certainly at that moment physical salvation, as in not physically dying, was in view, correct?

Firstly, are you trying to get me to understand what "deliverance" or "salvation" means? Have you read any of my posts that explain how "save" is used in the Text in various ways and tenses, so we need to make certain we're always looking at the context of what's being discussed?

If you have a specific verse in mind, please feel free to post it and we can discuss it.

 

[HeIsHere]

Firstly, are you trying to get me to understand what "deliverance" or "salvation" means? Have you read any of my posts that explain how "save" is used in the Text in various ways and tenses, so we need to make certain we're always looking at the context of what's being discussed?

If you have a specific verse in mind, please feel free to post it and we can discuss it.

I will admit I have not, I will go back as time permits.

Stay put, lol ....just joking I have a lot to review.

 

[studier]

what is the context. do we do these works to stay saved or keep from losing them, or do we do them out of love and gratitude.

You think you are going to twist again, you are mistaken.

Says the one who avoided even telling us for a few days what work we were required to do. until you finally said we must obey Gods commands.


You do not see alot.. Which is prety sad.



I am not suck on the concept of merit. those who think we must work to attain final salvation are stuck on merit.

I am stick on grace, and exposing those stuck on merit

Yawn.

Your pide is deep.. Try some humility for once.

It takes a while for me to take this position, but you're no longer of interest to me. If someone cannot see your tactics, that's a shame. They're very typical of some who have reached the end of their abilities.

Since I called your bluff on your Greek work, I don't recall your dealing with much if any actual Scripture but rather slumping off into making false allegations you cannot back up. If I see you post additional substantive errors, I may respond to provide what I view as a correction.

 

[studier]

I will admit I have not, I will go back as time permits.

Stay put, lol ....just joking I have a lot to review.

Or just ask a question about Salvation in any verse and I'm happy to explain what I see.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

bingo

Oh I know alot of people will think they are saved, and have to cry out Lord Lord did I not do all these great wor5ks in your name

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It takes a while for me to take this position, but you're no longer of interest to me. If someone cannot see your tactics, that's a shame. They're very typical of some who have reached the end of their abilities.

I have4 no tactics.

Just call it as I see it.

Since I called your bluff on your Greek work, I don't recall your dealing with much if any actual Scripture but rather slumping off into making false allegations you cannot back up. If I see you post additional substantive errors, I may respond to provide what I view as a correction.

see. Back to this..lol

Did you not say we have to cooperate with God to get saved
Did you not say we need to obey Gods commands, that is the work we need to do to be saved.

Are you going to deny it now?

 

[Believer08]

It sounds like you agree there’s no security for those in OSAS, as it’s entirely possible for someone to believe they are saved and not be, and if they don’t respond to the ‘wake-up calls’ then they were never saved in the first place?

 

[Believer08]

@studier, you are a very patient person.