The problem of the statement of “never saved to begin with”

[Everlasting-Grace]

"very saved"???

Why don't you just let your yes be yes and your no be no?

Are they saved or not?

If they in the end can end up not saved, then they are not saved are they?

Your either saved or your not

If salvation can be lost. YOUR NOT SAVED!!!!

 

[GWH]

Once again, no one has made this claim.

You are attempting to muddy the water with your "achieve salvation" strawman.

No one is claiming to earn salvation.

Neither you or me.

Obedience does not equal earning and this is the sin that you are lodging against many here.

I recently wrote a check to the local SPCA.
Would you consider their depositing of the check as a form of earning the donation?
No, they simply obeyed the rules of finance in order to receive the benefit of the donation.

"Obedience does not equal earning and this is the sin that you are lodging against many here."

Correct, because there is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and faith that accepts God’s working grace while walking/living (EPH 2:8-10, 2CR 5:7, RM 1:17), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime.

 

[Lamar]

I will take the biblical defenition thank you.

again, people fall away from the truth. they can not fall away from God.

maybe you need to realise this.. why puff yourself up?

"Biblical defenition" ???

Apostasy has nothing to do with "truth". It is simply the betrayal of a faith or other belief system.

You are either special or a rather dishonest poster.

BTW, what is a biblical definition of apostasy? I can't wait to here this.

 

[Lamar]

Are they saved or not?

If they in the end can end up not saved, then they are not saved are they?

Your either saved or your not

If salvation can be lost. YOUR NOT SAVED!!!!

You: "If they in the end can end up not saved, then they are not saved are they?"

Do you think people cannot see through your sidestepping?

If a person ends up not saved on judgement day does that mean that the person was never saved?

Yes or No?

Just be honest.

 

[Lamar]

You will have to explain how we are made alive by our works..

No he does not need to explain because he never made such a claim.

You are being absurd with these claims.
And that goes for Heishere as well.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

"Biblical defenition" ???

Apostasy has nothing to do with "truth". It is simply the betrayal of a faith or other belief system.

You are either special or a rather dishonest poster.

BTW, what is a biblical definition of apostasy? I can't wait to here this.

lol..

Sorry bro, I do not interpret the word to fit my belief system.

A child of God is Gods child. purchased by his blood. adopted by him, sealed by his spirit.

he is born forever. He can not unbirth himself..

But you go ahead and keep believing this.. You answer to God why he would do such a thing

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You: "If they in the end can end up not saved, then they are not saved are they?"

Do you think people cannot see through your sidestepping?

If a person ends up not saved on judgement day does that mean that the person was never saved?

Yes or No?

Just be honest.

Dude, you have a serious issue with comprehension. I already answered this,, Numerous times

If a person is condemned on judgment day, they were already condemned, because they did not believe. (john 3)

so according to Jesus, where they ever saved??

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

No he does not need to explain because he never made such a claim.

Actually yes he did, you all have

You are being absurd with these claims.
And that goes for Heishere as well.

I am not the one saying I can lose salvation because I failed to do what I need to do to keep it. That's you.

 

[Lamar]

lol..

Sorry bro, I do not interpret the word to fit my belief system.

A child of God is Gods child. purchased by his blood. adopted by him, sealed by his spirit.

he is born forever. He can not unbirth himself..

But you go ahead and keep believing this.. You answer to God why he would do such a thing

Thank you.

Your feeble answer proves my point.

 

[Lamar]

Actually yes he did, you all have

I would ask you to quote an example but you are the one who does not understand the difference between quoting and surmising.

 

[Lamar]

I am not the one saying I can lose salvation because I failed to do what I need to do to keep it. That's you.

If you mean apostasy by failing then yes you can lose your salvation.

 

[Lamar]

If a person is condemned on judgment day, they were already condemned, because they did not believe. (john 3)

so according to Jesus, where they ever saved??

Do you honestly think people cannot see what you are doing???

That was not my question.

Here is the question;

If a person ends up not saved on judgement day does that mean that the person was never saved?

Yes or No?

Stop changing the question and simply answer it. What are you afraid of?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Thank you.

Your feeble answer proves my point.

whatever

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I would ask you to quote an example but you are the one who does not understand the difference between quoting and surmising.

???

What you wrote has no bearing on my post.

The servant still had his forgiveness revoked.
The son was still without his benefits until he acted properly toward his father.

Here you have the son lost until he merited his fathers forgiveness by acting

Next

 

[Believer08]

@studier, I agree with your understanding of Hebrews 6:4-6, but I’m having difficulty understanding how those OT passages are referring to or mentioning to fall or have fallen away. Could you explain how they do? Thanks. I admire the time you’ve went into making that post.​

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

If you mean apostasy by failing then yes you can lose your salvation.

then you must earn it by using your own power to stay in faith.

any way you spin it, it is still trying to merit salvation

to you salvation is a downpayment by God to get you to do what he wants, fail to accomplish that. he taes the gift back.

 

[Lamar]

Here you have the son lost until he merited his fathers forgiveness by acting

You are surmising that the act of returning to the father was merit.

You are not quoting merit you are surmising merit. Merit is not in your example.

Can you not see the difference?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Do you honestly think people cannot see what you are doing???

what I am doing, or what you are doing?

That was not my question.

Here is the question;

If a person ends up not saved on judgement day

1. same as asking, If a person is condemned on judgment day.

does that mean that the person was never saved?

does that mean they were never saved

in which I annswered

Dude, you have a serious issue with comprehension. I already answered this,, Numerous times

If a person is condemned on judgment day, they were already condemned, because they did not believe. (john 3)

Yes or No?

to which I replied

so according to Jesus, where they ever saved??

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stop changing the question and simply answer it. What are you afraid of?

stop trying to manipulate and attack as if I did not answer. to make yourself look good.

or at the very least. learn to comprehend what people say

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You are surmising that the act of returning to the father was merit.

If this work was required to be resaved as his son, then yes, it is a work of merti.

its obvious you do not understand what works of merit are.

You are not quoting merit you are surmising merit. Merit is not in your example.

Can you not see the difference?

I am not surmising anything

I am stating a fact.

Also. the fact the child NEVER stopped being the son. He did not have to come back to continue being a son HE WAS STILL A SON.

He had his fellowship restored. he never lost his sonship.

either way. I showed someone who was trying to merit salvation. I did what you asked.

 

[studier]

We are saved from "something" correct?

And the "something" can vary correct?

NKJ Matthew 14:30 But when he saw that the wind was boisterous1, he was afraid; and beginning to sink he cried out, saying, "Lord, save me!"