Which works justify?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
21,187
7,253
113
63
???

Can you explain what you are implying.
I'm not implying anything. I'm making a simple statement: the individual I posed the question to believes he is maintaining his salvation by means of his ongoing obedience.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
1,365
622
113
Well, I do not advise disagreeing with Jesus.
Nor do I. But I advise others to disagree with your interpretations of scripture.

We don't just magically love our enemies after salvation. That takes time getting to KNOW our Savior......For most, that takes a lifetime of growing in His Grace and knowledge.......Be Honest now, would you take a bullet for your sworn enemy? The Honest Christians will say," I have some growing to do."
 

Lamar

Well-known member
May 21, 2023
1,035
161
63
I'm not implying anything. I'm making a simple statement: the individual I posed the question to believes he is maintaining his salvation by means of his ongoing obedience.
I am the "individual" who answered your question Post#349.

And I said no such thing.
 
Jan 27, 2025
575
151
43
When people say “It’s not about what we do, but what Christ did”, this can come across to many as we have nothing at all to do to be saved. To get around this, it is argued that if it’s all about what He did then all would be saved since He died for all (John 3:16)

However, let’s see if that phrase “It’s not about what we do, but what Christ did” is a biblical one.

Titus 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

In those passages, we can see that we did nothing on our own without God to be saved. We did nothing in our own merit/righteousness or works to have Jesus come and save us by His grace.

So, the part “It’s not about what we do” with regard to developing a way of being saved is correct.

However, does this mean there is nothing we must do in order to be saved? Let’s see

Matthew 7:21 - " he who does the will of my father in heaven"

Matthew 7:24-27 - "whoever hears these sayings of mine and does them"

Mark 10:17 - "Good teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?"

Acts 2:37-38 - "what shall we do?"

Acts 9:6 - "Lord, what do you want me to do?"

Acts 16:30 - "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

As we can see, there are many cases of people asking what they must do…So, the idea behind “It’s not about what we do” must be referring to we did nothing to save ourselves by ourselves, nor did we circumvent a way apart from the Godhead to be saved.

From that aspect, “it’s not what we do” because we didn’t invent the way of Jesus to save us. He saved us of His own doing in what He did by going to the cross. We did not do that for us. And out of love we obeyed Him.

The part that says “it’s about what Christ did” is referring to Him giving His life for us.

So technically, that phrase is a biblical view, but some people in denominations use it to say they don’t have to do one thing to be saved or live for Christ since it’s not about us. And they are right concerning the latter, because it’s not about us. And it never has been. It’s about Christ.

It is not our works that makes us righteousness (Titus 3:5). It is faith in Christ that does by the power of the gospel (Rom. 3:22, Phil. 3:9, Rom. 1:16).

The works of Christ that save us is His death, burial, resurrection, and what He has commanded us to do—which those are God given commandments to be saved by His grace.

The term “works” is sometimes the equivalent of “obedience.” Elsewhere Jesus promised victory to those who “keep my works,” i.e., the works (commands) prescribed by him (Rev. 2:26)

His grace instructs us (Titus 2:11-12).

Gal. 3:24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Romans 5:1-2 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we also have access by faith into this grace…

Gal. 3:24 says justified by faith

How does get into this grace in Romans 5:2? They have to be justified by faith. But how is one be justified by faith? One must be baptized into Christ (Gal. 3:27), and that is where we have access by faith into this grace (Rom. 5:2).
 
Jan 27, 2025
575
151
43
Well, I do not advise disagreeing with Jesus.
Amen…

Lk. 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
 

jacko

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2024
1,302
764
113
There is alot here, and were you inclined to hear what I had to say, I would address it. But I don't believe this to be the case.
You clearly believe that man needs to contribute works to grace for salvation. Nothing I share will alter that view. So rather than continue, I bid you grace and peace.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
 
Jan 13, 2016
17,536
3,775
113
James 2:23-26 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
To whom is the writer speaking to, to whom does this doctrine apply?

To the twelve tribes scattered abroad…
 
Jan 27, 2025
575
151
43
To whom is the writer speaking to, to whom does this doctrine apply?

To the twelve tribes scattered abroad…
They were Christians.

Otherwise, why would James be saying the following:

Jms. 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

(What is the perfect law of liberty?)

Jms. 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

Jms. 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

(What worthy name were they called?)

Jms. 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

(What truth would they have erred from?)
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,746
3,487
113
Frankston, Victoria
christianlife.au
Personally fine being called a conspiracy theorist, think it's preferable to being an ostrich with my head buried in the sand. It seems George used his experience working at the BBC as a source for much of 1984, can see why. It was less of the bureaucratic mouthpiece it is now but it was obvious that's the direction it was going in.

Think you might like this talk from the brilliant Michael Parenti, a hero of mine:

https://odysee.com/@januszkowalskii...lass-Power-(Michael-Parenti---Berkeley,-CA):b

Sadly, he suffers from Alzheimer's now, personally sure he still has lucid moments and feels unimaginable horror at what's happening to him. Definitely a fate worse than death to me.
George Orwell experienced the dead hand of Communism in Spain. He based his book on that and on wartime Britain.