Which works justify?

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Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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Don't expect you to agree but i do expect fairness. Those who want to shackle the replies of other, are usually the biggest whiners when someone tries to do it to them.

I think discussion should be on a level playing field.
And yet, I answered every one of his questions, even those that limited my replies.
 
Sep 29, 2024
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@Cameron143 asked - Do you believe your continued obedience will help secure your salvation?
I do not believe that this question is out of order, considering the topic being discussed.
Studier's posts have indicated that he stands on the side that would answer “yes” to this question, even though he knows that the correct answer would be “NO!”. He will not answer because because, by answering, many of his posts would be proven incorrect.
The truth of the matter is that the the topic is “which-works-justify”. The correct answer is only those which were done by Christ on our behalf!

The Bible often commands us to do many things that we are incapable of doing in our fallen condition. That is why we need a Savior such as Christ.
Ah! Some misunderstanding, don't recall that question, which i wouldn't have had an issue with. It was Cameron demanding he set the rules for how questions be answered, i had an issue with.

Won't bother going back over the post as your comment isn't relevant to what i said.
 
Jan 27, 2025
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Faith/belief is a work of God that we are to do.God doesn’t do it for us. When we believe we are working the works of God. Belief/faith is a work. But it’s not a work of our own righteousness that we invented. It’s work of God that we do.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
 
Jan 27, 2025
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I never said belief was a work of man in the sense that man invented that work of how to be saved. I also am not glorifying myself that I did something that God told me to do. I let grace reign in my life.

It’s not our works of righteousness that saves us (Titus 3:5). It’s the righteousness commandments/works of God that do (Ps. 119:172, Rom. 1:16, 1 Cor. 15:1-4, Acts 17:30, Rom. 10:9-10, Acts 2:21, Col. 2:12, Acts 2:38, Jms 2:24)

It is not our works that makes us righteousness (Titus 3:5). It is faith in Christ that does by the power of the gospel (Rom. 3:22, Phil. 3:9, Rom. 1:16).

God has a will for man to obey to be saved. As we do His will, it is obeying the work OF God. They are His works, which He gives to us to do. Those works are designed by HIM, not us. We are not saving ourselves by ourselves when we obey God’s divine authoritative commands. Everything which God has revealed to us through His word to be saved is grace. It’s dripping with grace and love. The Bible in the Old Testament and New Testament is full of commandments and conditional statements that God has freely given in order to receive what God freely gives. All of this is by God’s grace, as He has given instructions on how to receive what He freely gives.

The words of Jesus is filled with grace on how to be saved…and how to live such a life that demonstrates we are saved…one which glorifies Him so that we glorify the Father in heaven…the life we live is based on grace…as the teachings we have is founded…rooted…and filled with His amazing grace. I conclude based on all of that is why it is by grace and mercy that any of us get to heaven.

Grace isn’t what keeps me in sin, it’s what keeps me out of sin (Titus 2:11-12; Rom. 6:1). His grace, appearing through and by Jesus (Jn 1:17), had God reaching down to save me when I didn’t deserve (and still don’t deserve) to be saved, and I reached up to His grace that He extended in Christ to be saved. Not only did He save me, but He continues to save me when I fail.God’s saving grace calls us to repentance (2 Peter 3:9) and restoration (Jms. 5:19-20). By following God's commands, we become more Christ-like and strengthen our bond with Him (2 Peter 1:5-8). Our obedience stems from a heart of love and gratitude. It's a reflection of our faith and trust in Him, and His grace enables us to live a life that honors Him.
God’s grace instructs us to live for Him (Titus 2:11-12; Rom. 6:1) and when we obey God, He is working in us, (Phil. 2:12-13), as those are His words that are in our lives working, not ours. God’s grace is the source of our spiritual growth and obedience. Our relationship with God begins and is sustained by His grace through our faith (Eph. 2:8; 1 Peter 1:5). It is His grace that instructs us to align our will with His will. This is how we grow in the grace of our Lord and Savior (2 Peter 3:18, 1:5-11), and continue in it (Acts 13:43).

I’m not advocating obedience is the means and the only means of salvation without the need of grace, mercy, faith and love. When lost sinners obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered to them (Rom. 6:17)..they expressed their faith and desire to be saved by God’s grace..humbly throwing themselves on His mercy. The doctrine that was delivered unto them was not something they earned or could boast about. It is of God. The gospel is of God (2 Thess. 2:14; Rom. 1:16). Thus, any form of obedience from a heart of faith that is motivated, driven, and fueled by the gospel call of salvation (Acts 2:39) cannot possibly be one as earning or boasting..and cannot be considered relying or trusting in self. The only boasting one can do is give glory to God (1 Cor. 1:13; 2 Cor. 10:17) for what all He did in providing the means of salvation. Not self. The only boasting/rejoicing one can do once they get saved is with the testimony of their conscience with godly sincerity…by the grace of God (2 Cor. 1:12). I’m not advocating a kind or type of obedience that is boastful in ourselves (Titus 3:5) or our own righteousness (Rom. 10:3), or one that is legalistic or Phariseeish. I’m not advocating a follow the rule obedience with zero faith, zero love and not depending on grace and mercy when we fall short. I’m advocating one that is of faith in submitting to the righteousness of God (Rom. 10:3) through/by the power/authority of Christ Jesus our Lord (Mt. 28:18), who is the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him (Heb. 5:9).
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
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James 2:23-26 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Jesus~~ I am the way and the truth and the life.


Seems many believers have forgotten this truth. They have replaced it with.......

Believer~~ I am the way and the truth and the life.


If you have this magic way of works and fruit. Give us a detailed list. Be very specific. The types of works/fruits. The amount of works of fruits.

Be SPECIFIC. We all need to know the WAY to salvation.
 

Lamar

Well-known member
May 21, 2023
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Jesus works. They are the only works that provide for justification. According to Galatians 2:16, any works we do provide 0 justification.
Just answer the question.

It's a fair question. Your response shows a unwillingness to address the issue.

I have no issue with the question.

The verses state that Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son was the work that led to his justification.

The verses state that Rehab's act of hiding the spies was the work that led to her justification.

I can easily answer these question because I am not blinded by a theology.

What is your excuse for not answering this simple question?
 

Lamar

Well-known member
May 21, 2023
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I recognize we believe differently. Please answer this question: does your ongoing obedience contribute to your salvation?

Please just a simple yes or no.
I am happy to answer your question as written.

No, my obedience does not contribute to my salvation.
 

Lamar

Well-known member
May 21, 2023
1,032
161
63
Jesus~~ I am the way and the truth and the life.


Seems many believers have forgotten this truth. They have replaced it with.......

Believer~~ I am the way and the truth and the life.


If you have this magic way of works and fruit. Give us a detailed list. Be very specific. The types of works/fruits. The amount of works of fruits.

Be SPECIFIC. We all need to know the WAY to salvation.
A boorish response at best.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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Just answer the question.

It's a fair question. Your response shows a unwillingness to address the issue.

I have no issue with the question.

The verses state that Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son was the work that led to his justification.

The verses state that Rehab's act of hiding the spies was the work that led to her justification.

I can easily answer these question because I am not blinded by a theology.

What is your excuse for not answering this simple question?
I did answer. You simply didn't like the answer. Romans 5:9 says we are justified by the blood of Jesus. Romans 8:33 says it is God who justifies. These 2 things being true, it is not what an individual does that justifies themselves, but merely evidences that one has been justified.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
1,354
614
113
Just answer the question.

It's a fair question. Your response shows a unwillingness to address the issue.

I have no issue with the question.

The verses state that Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son was the work that led to his justification.

The verses state that Rehab's act of hiding the spies was the work that led to her justification.

I can easily answer these question because I am not blinded by a theology.

What is your excuse for not answering this simple question?
It is so simple you will never see it. Abraham was justified because he believed WAY back when he was still with his father.

WE/MEN see that others are justified by our works. I am saved and justified, no doubt. But if I sit on my butt and do nothing, I prove to no man that I am justified.

God looks at the heart, men look for EVIDENCE. And We SHOULD show men our faith.

SAVED as if through fire if we do not participate in Gods plan for us.

SIMPLE. But you won't see it.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
21,184
7,252
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I am happy to answer your question as written.

No, my obedience does not contribute to my salvation.
And you are correct. He does believe he is maintaining his salvation via his obedience.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
1,354
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A boorish response at best.
Of course it is to a worker.

Give us a detailed and specific list for the type and amount of works for salvation.

Give us your detailed list for the way to salvation. No ambiguity, a specific detailed list. And every man needs to follow your way.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
1,354
614
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A boorish response at best.
Not to mention and others noticed.........

Jesus~~ I am the way and the truth and the life......


It is a boorish response for workers. The Lord Jesus Christ and His work for us is ......boorish for the workers.