A misconception of obedience

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Jul 3, 2015
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1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
Thank you! You beat me to it lol ... I am at work just waiting for three o'clock to roll around so I can go home ... the internet is quite spotty here...
 
Apr 7, 2024
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Trust is a work. It is one of the hardest things humans can do.

You are claiming that God only saves those who do the trusting.

This is works theology, what part of this do you not understand?
I do not understand what must transpire in a person's theological training to cause them to confuse faith and works.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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Faith and works go hand in hand.

Like 2 oars of a boat.

If you have one without the other you go around in circles....

All through the bible obedience is seen by God's people and it needs to be a result of your faith.

Faith without works is dead.

Works without faith is legalism or fear.

Don't try to separate them.
Yes, like love and marriage.

I was guilty of separating them until a recent insight, which I am sharing as it seems to be appropriate or needed:

The kerygma proclaims GRFS, which calls for repentance and acceptance of Jesus as Lord, which is an all or nothing decision that occurs at one moment in time. The didache teaches God’s will regarding how saints or those who have been saved should live in order to be a good witness for Christ, which involves learning more of God’s Word throughout one’s lifetime. A passage teaching this truth is Colossians 2:6-7: “Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord [kerygma], continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught [didache].”

There is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and faith that accepts God’s working grace while walking/living (EPH 2:8-10, 2CR 5:7), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime.
 
Jan 27, 2025
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I don’t think anyone would disagree with the importance of obedience. The issue that we seem to be having is why we need to obey. One group believes in obeying to be saved. The other group seems to believe obedience is because they are saved. I stated in a previous post there is a sense in which we obey because we are saved. I think it’s important we try to reach an agreement and let go of any misrepresentations or accusations. We will never come to unity if we do not. Agreed?
 
Oct 19, 2024
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1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
2PT 1:5&10 - "Make every effort to add to your faith goodness... Make every effort to confirm your calling and election."

The kerygma proclaims GRFS, which calls for repentance and acceptance of Jesus as Lord, which is an all or nothing decision that occurs at one moment in time. The didache teaches God’s will regarding how saints or those who have been saved should live in order to be a good witness for Christ, which involves learning more of God’s Word throughout one’s lifetime.

A passage teaching this truth is Colossians 2:6-7: “Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord [kerygma], continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught [didache].”

There is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and faith that accepts God’s working grace while walking or "making every effort" (cf. EPH 2:8-10, 2CR 5:7), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime.
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
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Can one not say they got saved according to God’s word or do they have to have the same view of you in order to do such?
Of course they can say it.
That's why everyone has (limited) free-will.
I was asking him because i saw a contradiction.
 

Lamar

Well-known member
May 21, 2023
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1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
I suspect those in Matthew 7:21-23 also "knew" that they had eternal life.

John knew his audience, he also knew that many who would hear these words would not have eternal life.

May know is a far cry from knowing.

So what is your point?
 
Jan 27, 2025
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Faith and works go hand in hand.

Like 2 oars of a boat.

If you have one without the other you go around in circles....

All through the bible obedience is seen by God's people and it needs to be a result of your faith.

Faith without works is dead.

Works without faith is legalism or fear.

Don't try to seperate them.
I agree…

Pulling on Both Oars

Brett Petrillo

An old Scotsman operated a small rowboat for transporting passengers. One day a passenger noticed that the old man had carved on one oar the word, “Faith,” and on the other oar, “Works.” Curious, the Scotsman asked the meaning. The old man replied, “I’ll show you.” He dropped the “Faith” oar and pulled the “Works” oar. The boat went around in circles. Then, he dropped that oar and pulled the “Faith” oar. The little boat went in circles the opposite direction. After the demonstration, the old man picked up “Faith” and “Works,” and he began pulling both oars together. The boat sped swiftly over the water.

The old man explained, “You see, that is the way it is the Christian life. Dead works without faith are useless, and faith without works is dead also, getting you nowhere. However, faith and works pulling together make for safety, progress and blessing (James 2:14-26)."
 
Oct 19, 2024
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I do not understand what must transpire in a person's theological training to cause them to confuse faith and works.
I do, because I was never taught to connect them the way the Lord gave me insight to do recently, which I have been sharing ever since:

The kerygma proclaims GRFS, which calls for repentance and acceptance of Jesus as Lord, which is an all or nothing decision that occurs at one moment in time. The didache teaches God’s will regarding how saints or those who have been saved should live in order to be a good witness for Christ, which involves learning more of God’s Word throughout one’s lifetime.

A passage teaching this truth is Colossians 2:6-7: “Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord [kerygma], continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught [didache].”

There is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and faith that accepts God’s working grace while walking/doing good (EPH 2:8-10, 2CR 5:7, 2PT 1:5&10), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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I suspect those in Matthew 7:21-23 also "knew" that they had eternal life.

John knew his audience, he also knew that many who would hear these words would not have eternal life.

May know is a far cry from knowing.

So what is your point?
Are you saying the verse I posted is hypothetical, and doesn’t really mean what it says?
 
Apr 7, 2024
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I do, because I was never taught to connect them the way the Lord gave me insight to do recently, which I have been sharing ever since:

The kerygma proclaims GRFS, which calls for repentance and acceptance of Jesus as Lord, which is an all or nothing decision that occurs at one moment in time. The didache teaches God’s will regarding how saints or those who have been saved should live in order to be a good witness for Christ, which involves learning more of God’s Word throughout one’s lifetime.

A passage teaching this truth is Colossians 2:6-7: “Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord [kerygma], continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught [didache].”

There is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and faith that accepts God’s working grace while walking/doing good (EPH 2:8-10, 2CR 5:7, 2PT 1:5&10), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime.
But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. (Heb 11:6)​

How is it possible to think faith is necessary to please God and to think faith is to be avoided because it is works? That defies understanding.
 
Jul 3, 2015
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Are you saying the verse I posted is hypothetical, and doesn’t really mean what it says?
It sure seems that way... In fact given what else he's had to say, it is highly doubtful it could be taken any other way ... he does not believe anyone can be sure.
 

Lamar

Well-known member
May 21, 2023
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What you have said here is also the understanding of Salvation or 'How can we get into Heaven' as taught by my church.

I do have a question though.
In your profile you have said that you have been saved since 1984.
Why would you say that?
A fair question.

For the sake of expedience than principle.

I will bow my unworthy head and beg the blood of Jesus on the day of Judgement.
Like we all should.
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
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A fair question.

For the sake of expedience than principle.

I will bow my unworthy head and beg the blood of Jesus on the day of Judgement.
Like we all should.

God bless you and may God have mercy on us all.