A misconception of obedience

[Lamar]

actually no

we are trusting in the ability of God to save us, Confident in the fact that God, who began a good work in us, will complete it until he day of Christ. and Confident that when God says he will never let us go. and we will never be lost. he means it.

You are most certainly not putting your faith in God but in your theology.

You are simply inserting yourself into the pronouns "us" and "we", nothing more.

These pronouns describe Christians not simply those who believe they are Christians.

No one knows the individuals who names have not been blotted out of the Book of Life and that includes you.

 

[Magenta]

No one knows the individuals who names have not been blotted out of the Book of Life and that includes you.

Are you saying nobody can know whether or not they are saved?

 

[GWH]

Exactly…

Is there ever a time in the Bible where anyone was ever asked the word “do” concerning salvation? Is there ever a time in the Bible where anyone was ever told what they must “do” to be saved?

Let us go to the scriptures to find out

Mark 10:17 - "Good teacher, what shall I DO that I may inherit eternal life?"

Acts 2:37 - "what shall we DO?"

Acts 9:6 - "Lord, what do you want me to DO?"

Acts 16:30 - "Sirs, what must I DO to be saved?"

Yes, the kerygmatic question is sometimes answered in terms of faith and sometimes in terms of works as follows:

Scriptures on God’s Requirement for Salvation
[stated in terms of faith (F) and works (W)]

From Matthew

Repent (4:17, F),
Recognize one’s spiritual poverty (5:3, F)
Be righteous (5:20, W)
Love your enemies (5:44, W)
Serve God (6:24&33, W)
Enter the narrow gate (7:13, F)
Do God’s will (7:21 & 12:50, F&W)
Hear and act (7:24, F&W)
Confess Jesus (10:32, W)
Love Jesus (10:37, F)
Give life to Jesus (10:39& 16:24-25, F)
Have no doubt (11:6, F)
Come to Jesus (11:28, F)
Learn from Jesus (11:29, W)
Be for Jesus (12:30, F)
Understand (13:23, F)
Be good (5:48 & 13:38,43,49, W)
Value salvation (13:44-46, F)
Believe Jesus (16:16& 21:32, F)
Become humble (18:3-4 & 19:14, W)
Forgive others (18:35, W)
Give to the poor (19:21, W)
Follow Jesus (19:21&29, F)
Yield fruit (21:43, W)
Dress appropriately (22:11-14, cf. RV 16:15, W)
Love God, neighbor & self (22:37-40, W)
Hold out until the end (24:13, F)
Keep awake (24:42 & 25:13, F)
Be ready (24:44, F&W)
Be trustworthy and useful (25:21&30, F&W)
Help Jesus’ brothers (25:34-40, W)
Be righteous/do right (25:46, F&W)
More from Mark

33. Accept the kingdom (10:15, F)
34. Believe the Gospel (16:16, F)
35. Receive baptism (16:16, W)

From Luke

Be hated (6:22-23, W)
Lend (6:35, W)
Judge not (6:37, W)
Invite the poor to your party (14:13-14, W)
Use wealth wisely (16:9, W)
Stand firm (21:19, F)
From John

Be born again (3:3&6, F)
Come to the light (3:21, F)
Obey the Son (8:51 & 14:15, W)
Drink living water (4:14, F)
Heed Jesus (5:24, W)
Do right (5:29, W)
Work for the food of life (6:27, W)
Partake of the bread of life (6:33-35&51, F)
Eat the flesh and drink the blood of X (6:54, F)
Dwell within the truth (8:31&35, W)
Hate self; serve Jesus (12:25-26, W)
Accept Jesus’ words (12:47, F)
Follow Jesus’ example (13:15-17, W)
Dwell in Jesus and in love (15:5-10, F&W)
Heed his command (15:10-12, F)
Know God and Jesus Christ (17:3, F)
Believe Jesus is Christ/Son (20:31, F)
From Acts

Call on the name of the Lord (2:21, F)
Repent and be baptized (2:38, cf.3:19, F&W)
Believe in Jesus (10:43, cf. 13:39&48, F)
Believe in the Lord Jesus (16:31, cf. 18:8, F)
Repent and turn to God (26:20, F)
From Romans

Have faith (1:17, F)
Persist in doing good (2:7&10, cf.3:12, W)
Obey the law (2:13, cf. 3:20, W)
Have faith in Jesus Christ (3:22, 26&28&5:1, F)
Confess Jesus as resurrected Lord (10:9, F&W)
Call on the name of the Lord (10:13, F)
From 1 Corinthians

Believe (1:21, F)
Hold firmly to the gospel (15:2, F)
From 2 Corinthians

Repent (7:10, F)

 

[Lamar]

It could possibly be that some would like you to clarify what you mean when you say obey. What does this obedience that is evidence of one’s salvation look like?

We are way pass that question.

It seems that we are at a point of two camps.

One camp is asserting the need for an obedient faith and the other is not. It is really that simple.

We may debate what needs to be obeyed but not the need to obey.

 

[Lamar]

Are you saying nobody can know whether or not they are saved?

Only God knows. Would you not agree?

The mind of man is flawed, even his heart cannot be trusted.

Don't think so highly of yourself to presume your place at the table or even a place at all.

Stay humble and watchful.

 

[TMS]

Faith and works go hand in hand.

Like 2 oars of a boat.

If you have one without the other you go around in circles....

All through the bible obedience is seen by God's people and it needs to be a result of your faith.

Faith without works is dead.

Works without faith is legalism or fear.

Don't try to seperate them.

 

[Believer08]

It could possibly be that some would like you to clarify what you mean when you say obey. What does this obedience that is evidence of one’s salvation look like?

The Bible has already clarified that for me…

 

[Believer08]

We are way pass that question.

It seems that we are at a point of two camps.

One camp is asserting the need for an obedient faith and the other is not. It is really that simple.

We may debate what needs to be obeyed but not the need to obey.

Amen…

 

[Believer08]

We are way pass that question.

It seems that we are at a point of two camps.

One camp is asserting the need for an obedient faith and the other is not. It is really that simple.

We may debate what needs to be obeyed but not the need to obey.

Could not have said that better.

 

[Eli1]

Only God knows. Would you not agree?

The mind of man is flawed, even his heart cannot be trusted.

Don't think so highly of yourself to presume your place at the table or even a place at all.

Stay humble and watchful.

What you have said here is also the understanding of Salvation or 'How can we get into Heaven' as taught by my church.

I do have a question though.
In your profile you have said that you have been saved since 1984.
Why would you say that?

 

[Sipsey]

Only God knows. Would you not agree?

The mind of man is flawed, even his heart cannot be trusted.

Don't think so highly of yourself to presume your place at the table or even a place at all.

Stay humble and watchful.

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[Magenta]

Yes, the kerygmatic question is sometimes answered in terms of faith and sometimes in terms of works as follows:

Scriptures on God’s Requirement for Salvation
[stated in terms of faith (F) and works (W)]

From Matthew

Repent (4:17, F),
Recognize one’s spiritual poverty (5:3, F)
Be righteous (5:20, W)
Love your enemies (5:44, W)
Serve God (6:24&33, W)
Enter the narrow gate (7:13, F)
Do God’s will (7:21 & 12:50, F&W)
Hear and act (7:24, F&W)
Confess Jesus (10:32, W)
Love Jesus (10:37, F)
Give life to Jesus (10:39& 16:24-25, F)
Have no doubt (11:6, F)
Come to Jesus (11:28, F)
Learn from Jesus (11:29, W)
Be for Jesus (12:30, F)
Understand (13:23, F)
Be good (5:48 & 13:38,43,49, W)
Value salvation (13:44-46, F)
Believe Jesus (16:16& 21:32, F)
Become humble (18:3-4 & 19:14, W)
Forgive others (18:35, W)
Give to the poor (19:21, W)
Follow Jesus (19:21&29, F)
Yield fruit (21:43, W)
Dress appropriately (22:11-14, cf. RV 16:15, W)
Love God, neighbor & self (22:37-40, W)
Hold out until the end (24:13, F)
Keep awake (24:42 & 25:13, F)
Be ready (24:44, F&W)
Be trustworthy and useful (25:21&30, F&W)
Help Jesus’ brothers (25:34-40, W)
Be righteous/do right (25:46, F&W)
More from Mark

33. Accept the kingdom (10:15, F)
34. Believe the Gospel (16:16, F)
35. Receive baptism (16:16, W)

From Luke

Be hated (6:22-23, W)
Lend (6:35, W)
Judge not (6:37, W)
Invite the poor to your party (14:13-14, W)
Use wealth wisely (16:9, W)
Stand firm (21:19, F)
From John

Be born again (3:3&6, F)
Come to the light (3:21, F)
Obey the Son (8:51 & 14:15, W)
Drink living water (4:14, F)
Heed Jesus (5:24, W)
Do right (5:29, W)
Work for the food of life (6:27, W)
Partake of the bread of life (6:33-35&51, F)
Eat the flesh and drink the blood of X (6:54, F)
Dwell within the truth (8:31&35, W)
Hate self; serve Jesus (12:25-26, W)
Accept Jesus’ words (12:47, F)
Follow Jesus’ example (13:15-17, W)
Dwell in Jesus and in love (15:5-10, F&W)
Heed his command (15:10-12, F)
Know God and Jesus Christ (17:3, F)
Believe Jesus is Christ/Son (20:31, F)
From Acts

Call on the name of the Lord (2:21, F)
Repent and be baptized (2:38, cf.3:19, F&W)
Believe in Jesus (10:43, cf. 13:39&48, F)
Believe in the Lord Jesus (16:31, cf. 18:8, F)
Repent and turn to God (26:20, F)
From Romans

Have faith (1:17, F)
Persist in doing good (2:7&10, cf.3:12, W)
Obey the law (2:13, cf. 3:20, W)
Have faith in Jesus Christ (3:22, 26&28&5:1, F)
Confess Jesus as resurrected Lord (10:9, F&W)
Call on the name of the Lord (10:13, F)
From 1 Corinthians

Believe (1:21, F)
Hold firmly to the gospel (15:2, F)
From 2 Corinthians

Repent (7:10, F)

Often overlooked but very important was Jesus' answer to the question, "Who then can be saved?" Reply: With man it is impossible, but with God nothing is impossible.

 

[Believer08]

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Beautiful verse..it’s probably my favorite that John wrote.

 

[Believer08]

What you have said here is also the understanding of Salvation or 'How can we get into Heaven' as taught by my church.

I do have a question though.
In your profile you have said that you have been saved since 1984.
Why would you say that?

Why would he not?

 

[Eli1]

Why would he not?

Because it contradicts what he said about Salvation, which is supposed to be left in God's hands.

 

[Magenta]

Only God knows. Would you not agree?

The mind of man is flawed, even his heart cannot be trusted.

Don't think so highly of yourself to presume your place at the table or even a place at all.

Stay humble and watchful.

I cannot agree with you when you disagree with Scripture, which tells me that I can know that I have eternal life. 1 John 5:13

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You are most certainly not putting your faith in God but in your theology

lol. well you have not refuted a word I said. Just made an accusation which you have no basis of fact. I will will take your false assumption with a grain of salt.

You are simply inserting yourself into the pronouns "us" and "we", nothing more.

These pronouns describe Christians not simply those who believe they are Christians.

No one knows the individuals who names have not been blotted out of the Book of Life and that includes you.

I know this. I know where I put my faith.

And you can not deny it.. and have nothing to say so i will move on

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Only God knows. Would you not agree?

The mind of man is flawed, even his heart cannot be trusted.

Don't think so highly of yourself to presume your place at the table or even a place at all.

Stay humble and watchful.

Funny Hps John said we can know we have eternal life.

si I will trust John

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Faith and works go hand in hand.

Like 2 oars of a boat.

If you have one without the other you go around in circles....

All through the bible obedience is seen by God's people and it needs to be a result of your faith.

Faith without works is dead.

Works without faith is legalism or fear.

Don't try to seperate them.

You must seperate them in a nutshell

Because we are bnot saved by works period.

Works are a byproduct of salvation. Not to earn it

The legalist make both required.

The make the word of God contradict itself and God to be a liar

 

[Kroogz]

No one knows the individuals who names have not been blotted out of the Book of Life and that includes you.

Sad. All believers should know that everyone is in the book of life. At the final judgement(future) unbelievers will no longer be in the book of life.