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K
keepingthingsreal
Guest
It might help people here to answer this question if you first provide a good working definition of what open theism is.
I would say it is not. Its simply a different way of making sense of the tension between free will and predestination. The biblical authors provide no commentary on the subject which has caused people to view this subject in a different light. Open theism would be one extreme and calvinism would be the opposite of it. In the middle you have the arminianist views which kind of combines the two together, God knows, but does not cause and we have free will. This open ups a whole can of worms of if God knows and things can only go one way, is the will truly free? This is a philosophical issue, not a salvation issue
Open theism was a lot more common in the ancient near-east than one might expect.
The authors of the Bible never explain the tension between free will and God's predestination, sometimes they are right next to each other, one sentence separating the two. Which means the Bible teaches both.
Open theism was a lot more common in the ancient near-east than one might expect.
The authors of the Bible never explain the tension between free will and God's predestination, sometimes they are right next to each other, one sentence separating the two. Which means the Bible teaches both.
AI / WIKI: ''Open theism is a theological perspective within Christianity that suggests God's knowledge of the future is not exhaustive and is influenced by human free will. It posits that while God is omniscient, He does not know all future events because they are contingent on human choices, allowing for a dynamic relationship between God and humanity. ''
That ''He does not know all future events'' stands. (Genesis 22:12)
That ''He does not know all future events'' stands. (Genesis 22:12)
These are the proof texts used. In contrast there are a lot of verses that state very specific things involving the wills of man that Jesus predicted. For example Peter denying Him thrice before the cock crows.
Prophecy is different. God will make sure prophecy will come to pass. Future decisions of man are not prophesied in scripture.
So it's incoherent then? Because omniscient means knowing everything. So you can not say God is omniscient, but doesn't know some things. So it's just irrational? Open Theology embraces a none omniscient God?
Man's definition? God knows all things that can be known. Are the hairs on your head knowledge to be known...then God knows it. Can God choose not to know certain things in the future because he has given man a choice?
K
keepingthingsreal
Guest
Nope.
Gen 22:11
And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
Gen 22:12
And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
Gen 22:13
And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
Gen 22:14
And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
Gen 22:15
And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
Gen 22:16
And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
Gen 22:17
That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
Gen 22:18
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
God not only foreknew that Abraham would obey him, but he also foreknew that his seed would be as the stars of heaven, and that all the nations of the earth would be blessed though this act of Abraham's obedience.
For example:
Gen 18:17
And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;
Gen 18:18
Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
Gen 18:19
For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
Prior to the incident regarding Abraham's attempted sacrifice of Isaac, God had not only plainly declared that he knew Abraham, but he also said that he would bring upon Abraham that which he had spoken of him, and that included all the nations of the earth being blessed in him through his seed, which is Christ (Gal. 3:16).
Here is an earlier promise that God had made.
Gen 15:4
And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
Gen 15:5
And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
Gen 15:6
And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
Here, God plainly foretold that Abraham's seed would be as the stars of heaven in number. Also, prior to Abraham's attempted sacrifice of Isaac, God made it clear to Abraham that in Isaac would his seed be called.
Gen 21:12
And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Abraham had such faith in God that he was willing to sacrifice Isaac upon the altar while fully believing that God would have to raise him from the dead in order to fulfill his promise of his seed coming through Isaac's lineage.
Heb 11:17
By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
Heb 11:18
Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
Heb 11:19
Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
When God instructed Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, he was merely trying or testing Abraham's faith, but he foreknew what Abraham would ultimately do. When he told Abraham "now I know," he was merely telling Abraham that he had passed the test. He then reiterated the same promises which he had made before Abraham's attempted sacrifice of Isaac after Abraham's attempted sacrifice of Isaac, but he obviously foreknew what Abraham would do in order to bring those promises to pass.
The word "now" is concerning that moment in time of knowing that Abraham feared God.
If you don't mind, scale back a little for such a simple thinker as I and define further why my cite (V-12), isn't a type of His weakness?
K
keepingthingsreal
Guest
If you believe that God has weaknesses, then I question who your "god" is.
Open Theism is indeed heresy. How can God not know? If He did not, He would not be God.
"I declare the end from the beginning, and from ancient times what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and all My good pleasure I will accomplish.’" Isaiah 46:10
Psalm 33:10 & 11
The LORD frustrates the plans of the nations; He thwarts the devices of the peoples. The counsel of the LORD stands forever, the purposes of His heart to all generations.
Time is God's creation. He is outside of time. How else could Jesus be the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world? How could God have foretold the birth of the Lord Jesus to a woman? And that immediately after the fall of man?
If God created the vast universe from nothing, the incredible variety of life on the earth, the angels and mankind, then nothing is impossible for Him. That includes knowing the future in the minutest detail.
The test was for Abraham's sake, not God's. God knew what Abraham would do. Abraham showed that he believed that God could raise Isaac from the dead. Faith that is not tested may not be faith at all.
1 Peter 1: 6 & 7
"In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in various trials so that the proven character of your faith—more precious than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ."
K
keepingthingsreal
Guest
I have already shown that God had foreknowledge of what Abraham would do.
Cannot God choose not to know certain things?
Hebrew 10:
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
K
keepingthingsreal
Guest
Act 15:18
Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Did God know ahead of time that Nineveh would repent, and in turn, he would repent of the destruction he said he would do to them? Did God lie?