Is Open Theism Heresy?

[Magenta]

Not in forty days as the Lord said. "Yet forty days and Nineveh shall be overthrown."

I believe we've had this conversation before... And is it not wonderful that God keeps His promise to spare those who repent?

 

[Kroogz]

Time is God's creation. He is outside of time. How else could Jesus be the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world?

Why would God say this? The Lord Jesus Christ is eternal. 100% true humanity and 100% true Deity in one person....Forever(Eternally.)

The foundation of the world is in time.

 

[Believer08]

I'm not an open theist. I never even heard of the term until a couple years ago. I believe that scripture should define God and his attributes. Man should never define God based upon what we feel should be God's attributes, and then place God within our definition. Scripture should prevail. Scripture states that God is perfect in knowledge. Perfect meaning complete.

Agreed!

 

[Kroogz]

Yes, God knows all things, but future decisions by man are not knowledge until they are made. Man has been given a choice.

To be brutally honest I thought you were a quack when you brought this up a while ago. But I see now where you are coming from. I have a little different take on it though.

The Lord Jesus Christ CHOSE to lay aside His omniscience when creating freewill man. At His creation He chose to create man not knowing their future decision for Him or against Him.....True freedom. But, I believe He chose to use His omniscience after His creation of mankind. He knows and works with the freedom choice He gave to ALL.

 

[GWH]

Perhaps an alternate title for this thread would be: Is divine omnilove heresy?

 

[Believer08]

@GWH Divine omnilove??

 

[GWH]

@GWH Divine omnilove??

Yes, as in:

The Bible says that God is love and true love comes from God (1JN 4:7-21, RM 5:5), so volitional creatures or souls can love only by reflecting, imitating or cooperating with the Creator’s love. Although the Bible speaks of God hating Esau (MAL 1:3) and other evil people (HOS 9:15), Jesus’ teaching of love for enemies (MT 5:44) reveals that God loves all creatures including Satan but hates their sinful choices.

God loves and wants to save everyone (1TM 2:3-4, ACTS 17:26-28); Christ died to show God’s love and the possible salvation of all (RM 5:6-8) including His enemies (ungodly, atheist, anti-Christ).

 

[Kroogz]

Perhaps an alternate title for this thread would be: Is divine omnilove heresy?

The truth of the matter is in His Justice and righteousness.

He saves through His Justice. His Love brought His plan for mankind. And through Justice He saves.

His justice and righteousness is impugned to the nth degree in calvies theology.......God has no integrity in the calvies theology.

 

[John146]

That is nonsense. As has already been pointed out to you, Jesus knew that Peter would deny him before the denial, and we all know what God prophesied about Judas' choices way before Judas made them.

As I stated earlier, God will make sure all prophecy will come to pass. Is all future events prophecy?

 

[John146]

I believe we've had this conversation before... And is it not wonderful that God keeps His promise to spare those who repent?

Sure, but God said he would destroy them in forty days. God did not destroy them in forty days. Either God lied, or he changed his mind.

 

[Magenta]

Sure, but God said he would destroy them in forty days. God did not destroy them in forty days. Either God lied, or he changed his mind.

Yes, this is the very same conversation. Are you experiencing déjà vu too? LOL

I cannot fathom why you would call it changing His mind when it was always God's intention to show mercy to those who repent.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

As I stated earlier, God will make sure all prophecy will come to pass. Is all future events prophecy?

Did God only know David in this manner, or does he similarly know all of us?

Psa 139:1
[[To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.]] O LORD, thou hast searched me, and known me.
Psa 139:2
Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.
Psa 139:3
Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.
Psa 139:4
For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether.

 

[CS1]

If not, why not?

To suggest God doesn't know is the issue. If God doesn't know all, He is not God. Yes, God knew Nineveh would repent, which is why he was adamant about Jonah going. God knew they would. It's right there in the word of GOD. God can know the outcome and allow one to choose even if he knows what they will do. The human intellect can not fully comprehend All God is.

 

[Believer08]

Is it possible for someone to take an open view of the future yet not be labeled a heretick?

 

[Believer08]

To suggest God doesn't know is the issue. If God doesn't know all, He is not God. Yes, God knew Nineveh would repent, which is why he was adamant about Jonah going. God knew they would. It's right there in the word of GOD. God can know the outcome and allow one to choose even if he knows what they will do. The human intellect can not fully comprehend All God is.

I’m sure there some people who identify with an open view, but they do not suggest that God does not or cannot know.

 

[CS1]

I’m sure there some people who identify with an open view, but they do not suggest that God does not or cannot know.

that is the very implication of the teaching of teaching of
"Open Theism"

 

[Believer08]

that is the very implication of the teaching of teaching of
"Open Theism"

There must be some different variations of it then, as there are those who believe God is omniscient, who ascribe to some form of an open view of the future, but they do not believe that God cannot know or does not know the future.

 

[GWH]

There must be some different variations of it then, as there are those who believe God is omniscient, who ascribe to some form of an open view of the future, but they do not believe that God cannot know or does not know the future.

Omniscience includes knowledge of people’s thoughts (PS 94:11, MT 12:25) and the foreknowledge of events (ACTS 2:23, RM 8:29, 11:2, 1PT 1:2). Some people think that God even knows what a person will be/do before that person exists (JR 1:5). If this view is correct (which I find incomprehensible), it must be maintained that God’s foreknowledge does not predetermine a person’s spiritual choice regarding the satisfaction of God’s requirement for salvation or else moral responsibility would be abrogated. I find it simpler to think that God merely tweaks the river of history occasionally to keep if flowing in the direction He intends but allows the fish to swim as they wish.

 

[Believer08]

Omniscience includes knowledge of people’s thoughts (PS 94:11, MT 12:25) and the foreknowledge of events (ACTS 2:23, RM 8:29, 11:2, 1PT 1:2). Some people think that God even knows what a person will be/do before that person exists (JR 1:5). If this view is correct (which I find incomprehensible), it must be maintained that God’s foreknowledge does not predetermine a person’s spiritual choice regarding the satisfaction of God’s requirement for salvation or else moral responsibility would be abrogated. I find it simpler to think that God merely tweaks the river of history occasionally to keep if flowing in the direction He intends but allows the fish to swim as they wish.

I appreciate your thoughts. What are your thoughts on Jer. 1:5 and the prophecies concerning Cyrus and the prophecies that some believe are about Judas?

 

[John146]

Yes, this is the very same conversation. Are you experiencing déjà vu too? LOL

I cannot fathom why you would call it changing His mind when it was always God's intention to show mercy to those who repent.

God did not do what he said he would do unto them. Either God lied, or he changed his mind.