The one and the same or not?

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Aug 4, 2016
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#41
Hi Bluto, thank you for your view.
I can only repeat the question that if you know something 100% to be so; then why the need to test it or them.

Bit like saying let me test if a cup will fall to the ground if you push it off a high table surface. You wouldn't need to test this as you already know what will happen.

I test you to get the most valuable glass or pottery ornament you have. Find yourself a hard floor surface and throw that precious object up in the up in the air to see if it'll fall to the ground and break.

If I said I don't think that object will fall all the way to the ground and break.

If you think 100% that I am wrong then you won't try this test as you 100% the likely outcome of such a test. Do you agree ?
I gave you the answer in in my very first sentence. Or to put it another way Abraham by asking him to sacrifice his son Isaac to demonstrate and strengthen Abraham's faith, not to gain new knowledge about him. Also, the test was meant to reveal the depth of Abraham's trust in God, proving his loyalty and commitment to God's commands, even when they seemed impossible or contradictory. God does not contradict Himself and there is always a reason for what God does even though sometimes we do not see it.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
Aug 4, 2016
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#43
What I see is:
God just loves you, thank you
And what I see is someone not really understanding God. So I will try it this way. Do you believe God is completely omniscient? That is He knows absolutely everything having perfect knowledge? This is a "yes or no" question? BTW, God has loved me for past 63 years of being a Christian.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
Oct 24, 2012
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#44
And what I see is someone not really understanding God. So I will try it this way. Do you believe God is completely omniscient? That is He knows absolutely everything having perfect knowledge? This is a "yes or no" question? BTW, God has loved me for past 63 years of being a Christian.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
yes, and I see that too
God loves us all, period, at least this be what I see after many years u under Law to see this Love above it all
Amazing to me, thank you bluto
 
Jul 31, 2013
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#45
That looks absolutely sounds good to read but I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you say what 'he said was was absolutely perfect'. Can you explain this a bit more please. Thanks.
what i mean is, start from the position that what God says had no fault in it. more than that, what God says, there is absolutely no way it could be better said than how He said it.

yes, these things were given in old Hebrew and old Greek and we can come closer to the exact thing being said by a more exact literal understanding of those languages, so translations into English may lack the nuance, and that is valuable

but overall, what i mean to say is recognize that this is perfect, omniscient God speaking. we must not, when we try to understand it, try to find a way to make it say what we think it should say. we must instead understand what it really says, and then try to find a way to change our own understanding so that how we understand, fits what God says - - never the other way around.

look at His words and sort out why He says what He does, instead of, as some people do, trying to sort out how to make what He says mean what we think He should have said.

He said what He should have said. of course He did, He is God!
 
Jul 31, 2013
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#46
Do you believe God is completely omniscient? That is He knows absolutely everything having perfect knowledge? This is a "yes or no" question? BTW, God has loved me for past 63 years of being a Christian.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
you already know my answer:

yes.

:)
 
Jan 13, 2016
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#47
And what I see is someone not really understanding God. So I will try it this way. Do you believe God is completely omniscient? That is He knows absolutely everything having perfect knowledge? This is a "yes or no" question? BTW, God has loved me for past 63 years of being a Christian.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
But why allow knowledge to go beyond the present?
 
Oct 24, 2012
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#48
what i mean is, start from the position that what God says had no fault in it. more than that, what God says, there is absolutely no way it could be better said than how He said it.

yes, these things were given in old Hebrew and old Greek and we can come closer to the exact thing being said by a more exact literal understanding of those languages, so translations into English may lack the nuance, and that is valuable

but overall, what i mean to say is recognize that this is perfect, omniscient God speaking. we must not, when we try to understand it, try to find a way to make it say what we think it should say. we must instead understand what it really says, and then try to find a way to change our own understanding so that how we understand, fits what God says - - never the other way around.

look at His words and sort out why He says what He does, instead of, as some people do, trying to sort out how to make what He says mean what we think He should have said.

He said what He should have said. of course He did, He is God!
How about listen, God still speaks, within people to them in truth of love for us all, done for all by Son in his death, then new life in the risen Christ given to us from God Father for us, to not count anymore sin against any of us any longer, as people still do that, not God. Wow! Thank you Lord. Listen for God to tell you. you will hear. I remember asking and not thinking about that asking, and went on in life. As I was going along, the answer came inside me from God in love to all, "I" just love you"
Amazing grace I have forgotten many times when I got mad over things going wrong, or so it seemed as were. When truth is they were not at all. God has proven this to me, personally, I have been like a Job in the book of Job, deeper to death willingly also
Willing is the key I see, never forced to drink or to obey as man continues under man laws
However God loves us all y'all time to respond and stop trying to create and play god.
A Psalm of Asaph. Psalm 82
God standeth in the congregation of the mighty;
he judgeth among the gods.
How long will ye judge unjustly,
and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
Defend the poor and fatherless:
do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Deliver the poor and needy:
rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
They know not, neither will they understand;
they walk on in darkness:
all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
I have said, Ye are gods;
and all of you are children of the most High.
But ye shall die like men,
and fall like one of the princes.
Arise, O God, judge the earth:
for thou shalt inherit all nations.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
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#49
Genesis 22:12 says, “Do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him, for...NOW... I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son, from me”.

HOWEVER:.....

Matthew 26:34 in the Bible says, "Truly I tell you, this very night, before the rooster crows, you... WILL...disown me three times".

How is it in Genesis, the passage reads that the all knowing God appears unsure as to whether Abraham will follow his command when tested, but in Matthew, Jesus is clearly able to know what Peter will do in the future?

Explanation/s please.
Abraham's willingness to give up his only son was a fulfillment of the line of credit God gave to Abraham years before.

Genesis 15:6
Abram believed the Lord, and he credited it to him as righteousness.

If Abraham had failed we would not even know who Abraham was.

This applies to Esther also.

Esther 4:14
For if you keep silent at this time, relief and deliverance will rise for the Jews from another place, but you and your father 's house will perish. And who knows whether you have not come to the kingdom for such a time.

By God's mercy we are all credited His grace. It is on us to fulfill our part.

Yes we have a part.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
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#50
Omniscience vs Heresy of Open Theism:

1.) Open theism (which is being promoted in this thread) makes a direct attack upon God's omniscience. This is literal heresy, and it always has been, through all of church history. Open Theism claims God does NOT have omniscience, and he does NOT know all things, and many things simply SURPRISE him... as if he's not God, but a child.

2.) To attack God's omniscience is to attack God's core divine attributes... it is an attack on God's divine nature, being and character. This is an attempt to LOWER God's divine nature, and make him more like fallen man. It constitutes nothing more than a lowering, a denigrating, of God.

3.) God's omniscience is very clear in scripture, we have many clear verses for it, it's been understood for millennia... and Open Theism attacks it.



Conclusion:
Because Open Theism attacks God's divine attribute of omniscience, and greatly lowers God's divine knowledge so that it's closer to the weak and fallible knowledge of fallen man... this lifts Open Theism far above the realm of harmless error, and moves it into the realm of genuine heresy.

Biblical Christians should neither entertain it, nor tolerate it, for a single moment.

.
Relax Maxwel, no one is attacking God's divine nature.
 
Apr 18, 2013
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#51
Relax Maxwel, no one is attacking God's divine nature.
Open Theism is absolutely an attack on God's Divine nature.

God's divine nature is inseparable from his perfect divine attributes. And Open Theism downgrades the essential and incommunicable attribute of omniscience, to an enormous degree, by removing his divine foreknowledge.



Attacks upon God's divine attributes have always been considered actual heresy.

.
 
Jan 17, 2024
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#52
Genesis 22:12 says, “Do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him, for...NOW... I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son, from me”.

HOWEVER:.....

Matthew 26:34 in the Bible says, "Truly I tell you, this very night, before the rooster crows, you... WILL...disown me three times".

How is it in Genesis, the passage reads that the all knowing God appears unsure as to whether Abraham will follow his command when tested, but in Matthew, Jesus is clearly able to know what Peter will do in the future?

Explanation/s please.
Do you think God knows where people are or not really?

Genesis 3
9 But the LORD God called out to the man, “Where are you?”
 
Nov 28, 2024
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#53
I gave you the answer in in my very first sentence. Or to put it another way Abraham by asking him to sacrifice his son Isaac to demonstrate and strengthen Abraham's faith, not to gain new knowledge about him. Also, the test was meant to reveal the depth of Abraham's trust in God, proving his loyalty and commitment to God's commands, even when they seemed impossible or contradictory. God does not contradict Himself and there is always a reason for what God does even though sometimes we do not see it.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
So the all knowing God who it's written knows us even before we leave the womb had doubts about Abraham faith or trust needed to test him?
 
Nov 28, 2024
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#55
This view suggests that the all knowing God
A.) Whenever dealing with tricky or UNCLEAR passages, we always need to refer to more CLEAR passages to establish a baseline.
B.) There are many passages making it clear that God knows all things, and there is nothing unknown to him.
C.) So if our doctrinal baseline, from clear passages, is that God knows all things... then this interpretation of Genesis 22:12 (questioning God's foreknowledge) must be an interpretation that's in error.

God knows all things.
But God does use anthropomorphisms, and various figures of speech, in order to teach and communicate with us mortals.

.
.) So if our doctrinal baseline, from clear passages, is that God knows all things... then this interpretation of Genesis 22:12 (questioning God's foreknowledge) must be an interpretation that's in error.
‐--‐‐‐------------‐---------------------------------------

It is either an error or it is true. Can't be anything else could it?...
 
Nov 28, 2024
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#56
Mmmm... this seems headed to an open theism debate.

(Open theism IS used as a proof for free will, but no TRADITIONAL Christians, on either side of the free will debate, believe in open theism... as it mangles the perfect attributes of God.)

.
So applying what you say above, how would you explain the... NOW I know ....bit quoted in the bible?