The one and the same or not?
- Thread starter SpeakWhatYouSee
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
All doors don’t have hinges and knobs. Those are types of doors, but so is Jesus. A door opens and leads the way.
Besides, stating the word “now” is nowhere close to being a metaphor.
Which is a metaphor. How do you think you can be saved if you don't drink Jesus' physical blood and cannibalize his physical flesh?
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. John 6:53
God knows, and yet chooses to reveal what God knows or not
As God in the fall of Adam and Eve, said to them
"who told you, you were naked?" Have you eaten from that tree?
As if God did not know.
To me I see this: God allows us each to be accountable to self and God in honesty. That be what I see, thanking God forever in trust to God as the only one righteous, that enables righteousness in as God chooses to for a righteous reason as even those God does not do that for a righteous reason, that I need not to have to understand, because I have chosen to trust God no matter how anyone else lays it out, I see to not listen to that age old serpent that Eve, then Adam listened to, thank you
As Peter definitely did not think he would ever deny Jesus the Son. He did do that didn't he as God knew. Which was for Peter's benefit to see and be accountable, that took a while even after his denial, even though forgiven for it by God Father in Son. Peter still even got told by Paul he was not doing it correctly, hiding himself from his brethren that were coming there in Galatia to check out this freedom given them. (Peter hid) As Paul even said he did not care what flesh thinks, even the patrons under Law. If you are going to live free, then live free as you say you believe. I Love the love of God that frees us all to love all as God does, proven on that cross once for all to me at least
First death to fulfill Law and then risen to give us this love and mercy to now do that too, thank you
Maybe there are future things that are not knowledge until the decision is made, and then and only then does it become known of God. Maybe God has chosen to work within the timeframe and free will that he has given to man.
Omniscience vs Heresy of Open Theism:
1.) Open theism (which is being promoted in this thread) makes a direct attack upon God's omniscience. This is literal heresy, and it always has been, through all of church history. Open Theism claims God does NOT have omniscience, and he does NOT know all things, and many things simply SURPRISE him... as if he's not God, but a child.
2.) To attack God's omniscience is to attack God's core divine attributes... it is an attack on God's divine nature, being and character. This is an attempt to LOWER God's divine nature, and make him more like fallen man. It constitutes nothing more than a lowering, a denigrating, of God.
3.) God's omniscience is very clear in scripture, we have many clear verses for it, it's been understood for millennia... and Open Theism attacks it.
Conclusion:
Because Open Theism attacks God's divine attribute of omniscience, and greatly lowers God's divine knowledge so that it's closer to the weak and fallible knowledge of fallen man... this lifts Open Theism far above the realm of harmless error, and moves it into the realm of genuine heresy.
Biblical Christians should neither entertain it, nor tolerate it, for a single moment.
.
I don’t know about open theism, but biblically, God knows all things. What I am eluding too is future things are not necessarily knowledge, therefore, an all knowing God cannot know them until events play out.
Man should not define terms as omniscience, then put God into our definition. That’s all. The Bible should be the basis of all things God.
Why would God be any lesser if he has chosen not to know certain future things?
In the future, has God chosen to remember our sins no more?
Because in every situation, the words.... NOW I know ....indicates uncertainty or not knowing something beforehand .
God knows Abrahams heart: Then again why the need to test him if he already knows the outcome? Notice that it says that God says for NOW I know, and not for now YOU know.
If you KNOW something 100% then why the need to test it? If you KNOW 100% that a match will burst into flames when stuck against a hard rough surface, do you need to strike the match to test it?
Hi Bluto, thank you for your view.
I can only repeat the question that if you know something 100% to be so; then why the need to test it or them.
Bit like saying let me test if a cup will fall to the ground if you push it off a high table surface. You wouldn't need to test this as you already know what will happen.
I test you to get the most valuable glass or pottery ornament you have. Find yourself a hard floor surface and throw that precious object up in the up in the air to see if it'll fall to the ground and break.
If I said I don't think that object will fall all the way to the ground and break.
If you think 100% that I am wrong then you won't try this test as you 100% the likely outcome of such a test. Do you agree ?
That looks absolutely sounds good to read but I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you say what 'he said was was absolutely perfect'. Can you explain this a bit more please. Thanks.
Hi Billy Bob, I think that passage relates to us mortal human beings, and not to an All knowing and seeing God.
Maybe there are future things that are not knowledge until the decision is made, and then and only then does it become known of God. Maybe God has chosen to work within the timeframe and free will that he has given to man.
A very very interesting reply John. When you say future things not being known until the decision is made. Who do mean is the one needing to make the decision. Man or God?
To answer your question, both. When man is faced with the word of God, man must make a decision. When makes a decision, either with his mouth or his heart, then God knows it as in the case of Abraham. Abraham was being tested by God to see if Abraham feared God.
Is God perfect in knowledge? Absolutely! He knows our thoughts, our words before we speak them, even the number of hairs on our heads. These things are knowledge to be known only to God.
Prophecy and future knowledge as stated in scripture will come to pass because God is the one making sure it will come to pass. Our day to day decisions are not in scripture, therefore, they may not be knowledge until we are confronted to make a decision. Imagine God working in and through all people on the earth at all times, making sure his will as outlined in scripture come to pass.
I'm not some, "open theist", but a bible believer. I don't believe God is caught off guard or surprised, but instead, has given man choices to make. Remember, God knows us better than we know ourselves. There are many "if and then" statements in the bible. "If you do this, then I know what the outcome will be. But if you do that, I know the outcome. Now choose."