Understanding God’s election

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,388
1,006
113
you know I was wondering something today. For those who believe in election I have a question if some were predestined for salvation while other were not why bother trying to save souls? I mean sure you might bring some who were predestined to be saved but then others who were predestined not for salvation you are just wasting your time and effort on them right?

So say that election is truth why then do you bother to try to save souis assuming you do that of course I don't know how many actually try to bring others to Christ but we were commanded to do so by Jesus, except then comes the issue of salbation for the elect and then the non elect
If God predestined the entire show why act out some part of the show, as if you have something to do with it?

You cannot alter God's sovereign will!

The outcome is exactly the same whether you lift a finger or not.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,502
2,707
113
They have God treating people like a little girl playing house with dolls.
She makes them speak. She makes them do as she wishes...
She is sovereign over them.......
regardless how they think we still should show patience and love those are the fruits of the spirit
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,502
2,707
113
If God predestined the entire show why act out some part of the show, as if you have something to do with it?

You cannot alter God's sovereign will!

The outcome is exactly the same whether you lift a finger or not.
But were we not commanded to work and to bring the lost to Christ? are you saying it is useless to try to reach the lost?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,778
8,613
113
you know I was wondering something today. For those who believe in election I have a question if some were predestined for salvation while other were not why bother trying to save souls? I mean sure you might bring some who were predestined to be saved but then others who were predestined not for salvation you are just wasting your time and effort on them right?

So say that election is truth why then do you bother to try to save souis assuming you do that of course I don't know how many actually try to bring others to Christ but we were commanded to do so by Jesus, except then comes the issue of salbation for the elect and then the non elect
The Calvinite walls need little more than a whisper. Maybe a nudge.
And down they come.

[Jos 6:20 KJV]
So the people shouted when [the priests] blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,388
1,006
113
They have God treating people like a little girl playing house with dolls.
She makes them speak. She makes them do as she wishes...
She is sovereign over them.......
Adam never chose anything it was all the will of God.

Either God is sovereign or God is not sovereign?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,778
8,613
113
They have God treating people like a little girl playing house with dolls.
She makes them speak. She makes them do as she wishes...
She is sovereign over them.......
Maybe Trelane from star trek? How about Q?
Both were nasty and selfish. Both did not give a hoot about anybody.
Both were cruel and manipulative.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,388
1,006
113
But were we not commanded to work and to bring the lost to Christ? are you saying it is useless to try to reach the lost?
How can you attempt to save anyone?

God has already predestined all things in the universe.

You cannot exercise freedom of will under God's Sovereignty.

It's not what you choose, or desire, or strive for, God's decision was made in eternity past.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,502
2,707
113
How can you attempt to save anyone?

God has already predestined all things in the universe.

You cannot exercise freedom of will under God's Sovereignty.

It's not what you choose, or desire, or strive for, God's decision was made in eternity past.
it isn't about me choosing or my will it is about doing the work he gave us to do which is to use the gifts he gave us to reach the lost or did you forget that he commanded us to go and make disviples I mean what do you use your talents for?
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,388
1,006
113
But were we not commanded to work and to bring the lost to Christ? are you saying it is useless to try to reach the lost?
It boils down to whether you believe God has predestined salvation or not.

He does not need Blains input as the the result of the game is written already.
 
Dec 11, 2024
37
7
8
Salvation is by grace through that instrument of faith.

Always by grace first.

Salvation is in the form of a gift given to those that believe.

A gift given to those that call on the name of Jesus, 'help me Jesus, save me Jesus'.

The Jews were once the elect but are not the elect now, context Cameron.

The Jews did not believe in Jesus and became non elect.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
3,035
408
83
It is obvious that some here care nothing for what you really believe as long as they
can post reams of what you don't believe and attribute it to you as if it really was.
It is actually quite shocking how easily people who call themselves Christians lie.
It's called self-deception. These professing Christians of which you speak have conned themselves into believing they are the superheroes of the Christian Faith whom God has called to defend the faith. So...any tactic or strategy or plan they employ to "fulfill their calling" is fair game, since all is fair in love and war.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,502
2,707
113
It boils down to whether you believe God has predestined salvation or not.

He does not need Blains input as the the result of the game is written already.
I see so you are not a worker for Christ, well I leave that between you and Christ then I am not responcible for what he ahs to say to you one day......
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
3,035
408
83
How can you attempt to save anyone?

God has already predestined all things in the universe.

You cannot exercise freedom of will under God's Sovereignty.

It's not what you choose, or desire, or strive for, God's decision was made in eternity past.
Including the means to save souls.

I joyfully and soberly at the same time consider it a great privilege to be a co-worker with Christ in evangelism. It's not my place to know who is and who isn't among God's elect. But it is my place to obey God.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,778
8,613
113
it isn't about me choosing or my will it is about doing the work he gave us to do which is to use the gifts he gave us to reach the lost or did you forget that he commanded us to go and make disviples I mean what do you use your talents for?
The Calvinites are CHOOSING alright. Whether they know it or not. Whether they like it or not. And whether they believe it or not.

[Mat 11:20 KJV]
Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:

[Mat 21:32 KJV]
For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen [it], repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

[Luk 11:32 NLT]
The people of Nineveh will also stand up against this generation on judgment day and condemn it, for they repented of their sins at the preaching of Jonah. Now someone greater than Jonah is here--but you refuse to repent.

[Rev 2:21 KJV]
And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
3,035
408
83
The Calvinites are CHOOSING alright. Whether they know it or not. Whether they like it or not. And whether they believe it or not.

[Mat 11:20 KJV]
Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:

[Mat 21:32 KJV]
For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen [it], repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

[Luk 11:32 NLT]
The people of Nineveh will also stand up against this generation on judgment day and condemn it, for they repented of their sins at the preaching of Jonah. Now someone greater than Jonah is here--but you refuse to repent.

[Rev 2:21 KJV]
And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
And we're choosing like never before in our life. After all, the Truth has set us free and Jesus has as well. Once we were free FROM righteousness; now we're free FROM the control of sin which makes us free TO choose what is RIGHT! Look at this NC age as a big dress rehearsal for the eternal, visible Kingdom in which all the saints will only be able to choose what is good, righteous and holy, since in that age all God's saints will be perfectly, completely and eternally conformed to the image of Christ.

I don't think you will enjoy the Age to come, since in your world, true freedom is being able to make choices contrary to our nature. But....all that is contrary to good, righteousness and holiness won't even enter a saint's mind; for the saints will be so overwhelmed by the majesty, glory, power and love of God that all we will want to do is worship him, praise him, thank him and serve him forever and ever. But you free willers will certainly feel like fish out of water in that age!
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,388
1,006
113
And we're choosing like never before in our life. After all, the Truth has set us free and Jesus has as well. Once we were free FROM righteousness; now we're free FROM the control of sin which makes us free TO choose what is RIGHT! Look at this NC age as a big dress rehearsal for the eternal, visible Kingdom in which all the saints will only be able to choose what is good, righteous and holy, since in that age all God's saints will be perfectly, completely and eternally conformed to the image of Christ.

I don't think you will enjoy the Age to come, since in your world, true freedom is being able to make choices contrary to our nature. But....all that is contrary to good, righteousness and holiness won't even enter a saint's mind; for the saints will be so overwhelmed by the majesty, glory, power and love of God that all we will want to do is worship him, praise him, thank him and serve him forever and ever. But you free willers will certainly feel like fish out of water in that age!
Yeah, what choices.

Yeah Rufus.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
864
346
63
On the other hand, it is written:

John 11:26
26 and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

NIV

Life logically and biblically precedes faith. Dead people can't do anything.

Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies,

Believes and THEN you shall live.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved....

Believes and THEN shall be saved.

Commit Things worthy of stripes and you shall be beaten......

Commit things worthy of a beating and THEN you shall be beaten.


Can you beat a man before he commits things worthy of a beating? No worries about answering. Just an example of reformed folly.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,133
30,268
113
Deuteronomy 30:6~ The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.:)
@Kroogz do you agree with the order of events as presented in this Scripture?

Also Ezekiel 36:26-27; Romans 2:29; Jeremiah 32:39-40; Colossians 2:11 Philippians 3:3...
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,074
6,880
113
62
The offspring of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, are saved?

The nation of Israel are the offspring of the twelve sons of Jacob.

Israel was severed from, grafted out of, Christ.

God chose certain Hebrews for the realization of the promise.

No one knows whether Egypt or Pharoah was saved or condemned.

As for Ishmael was he saved or not?

The scripture is silent on these people's salvation and it's not up to us to decide such things.

Your talking as if the only saved people in the O.T were Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?
More stuff attributed to me I didn't say. Obviously not all of Israel was redeemed; neither were the 3 mentioned the only ones. Anyone reading Hebrews 11 would know this.
I didn't say whether Ismail was saved or not. I said he was rejected by God. Another shark jumped.
The juxtaposition of the rescue of the Israelites and the destruction of the Egyptians is clearly a picture of salvation and damnation. God brought life to one group and death to the other. Couldn't be any more clear.
But if you did read post#4065, you missed the point altogether.