Understanding God’s election

[Rufus]

And one more thing while I think of it. Here's a truth you can stuff in your hash pipe and puff on until the cows come home: Roman's 3 is the universal, divinely inspired indictment against all mankind (unbelieving Jews and Gentiles).

Secondly, Paul didn't have include Ps 14:1 since it should be understood from everything the NT teaches that all unbelievers are atheists in the practical sense. How? Because all unbelievers live their every day lives as though there is no God. Practically speaking, all unbelievers are atheists because they don't believe in the one and only true God, consequently their sinful lifestyles reflect this reality. Therefore, Paul's universal indictment against all humanity is valid.

The unbelievers won't think it's funny on Judgment Day.

 

[Rufus]

Yeah you really seem to avoid scripture and cast your thinking on others who present scripture to me . But I think I understand the issue after seeing the immaturity in your responses

“For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

milk is good and you grow a little but meat makes you grow up and eventually milk doesn’t have the sustenance you need to bear fruit

The only immature one between us is YOU! What demon possessed you to come up with the idea that Paul royally screwed up Rom 3:10-18 -- and of course by extension the Holy Spirit is guilty as well with that "horrible oversight"?

 

[Cameron143]

Maybe even the same one God sent to Noah after the flood. Now that would be one ol' bird!

The word "know" in Joshua 2:9 is the same word in Genesis 3 where Adam knew his wife. The implication is that this is intimate experiential knowledge. The NT corollary is John 17:3 wherein eternal life is equated to knowing God. Hence, her knowing was the result of the revelation.

Coincidentally, Jesus said in Matthew 16 that revelation is the way the church would be built.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I'm talking about what you utterly failed to see in Rom 3:10-18. Why would anyone in his right mind complain about something an inspired writer left out of his argument. I think I will trust Paul's judgment in this matter, rather yours, which seems to have gone off the rails.

a well yes if I was trying to study you I’d be way off the rails but it’s a biblical discussion forum let’s see if I’m off the rails from the scripture or of Roman’s two rings true throughout

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus

“For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:23‬ ‭

“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12‬ ‭

maybe it’s just me but I think I’m still on the rails again I’m not on your tracks but I’m on the rails o want to be on provided by mounds of scripture I don’t have to ignore and pretend doesn’t apply or exist

 

[Rufus]

yeah romans 3 is there so is Roman’s 2

Another non-sequitur answer! Is Ps 14:1 or Ps 53:1 anywhere to be found in Romans!? Try to keep on point.

Also, Paul is drawing an important conclusion to what he wrote prior to Rom 3:9 -- a conclusion that you should refrain from perverting.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The only immature one between us is YOU! What demon possessed you to come up with the idea that Paul royally screwed up Rom 3:10-18 -- and of course by extension the Holy Spirit is guilty as well with that "horrible oversight"?

What demon possessed me to agree with Roman’s two and the rest of the bibles teachings about judgement lol ?

And ……I’m the one off the rails ! this is rather entertaining excited to see where you go next lol

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Another non-sequitur answer! Is Ps 14:1 or Ps 53:1 anywhere to be found in Romans!? Try to keep on point.

Also, Paul is drawing an important conclusion to what he wrote prior to Rom 3:9 -- a conclusion that you should refrain from perverting.

My mama used to say “ boy you’re hoppin’ mad ! “

 

[Rufus]

a well yes if I was trying to study you I’d be way off the rails but it’s a biblical discussion forum let’s see if I’m off the rails from the scripture or of Roman’s two rings true throughout

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus

“For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:23‬ ‭

“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12‬ ‭

maybe it’s just me but I think I’m still on the rails again I’m not on your tracks but I’m on the rails o want to be on provided by mounds of scripture I don’t have to ignore and pretend doesn’t apply or exist

Another non sequitur post.

Why don't you just explain to us why Paul's "glaring omission" of Ps 14:1 ruins alters the conclusion he made in Rom 3:9-18?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Another non sequitur post.

Why don't you just explain to us why Paul's "glaring omission" of Ps 14:1 ruins alters the conclusion he made in Rom 3:9-18?

you aren’t interested in a discussion about this with me your avoiding all the plain obvious things I’ve shown to support my position , but I understand

 

[Rufus]

What demon possessed me to agree with Roman’s two and the rest of the bibles teachings about judgement lol ?

And ……I’m the one off the rails ! this is rather entertaining excited to see where you go next lol

Rom 3:9-18 is not about God's judgment! It's a judicial indictment. Obviously, you don't know the difference between the two. Paul, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is charging the human race with it "high crimes and misdemeanors" against God.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Rom 3:9-18 is not about God's judgment! It's a judicial indictment. Obviously, you don't know the difference between the two. Paul, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is charging the human race with it "high crimes and misdemeanors" against God.

You haven’t acknolwedged anything I’ve shown you it’s a waste of my time you just want to argue . I’m too old to waste my time , so you have the last word

heres mine along with my motivation of mentioning it

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Rufus]

you aren’t interested in a discussion about this with me your avoiding all the plain obvious things I’ve shown to support my position , but I understand

They are neither plain or obvious since they're all non sequiturs with respect to Rom 3:9-18. Therefore, what is plain and obvious is that you have no clue as to why Paul and the Holy Spirit didn't see Ps 14:1 as a critical and essentially important component to the above mentioned passage, as you do.

Don't tell me that you're lost for words to explain to us how Paul and God screwed up Rom 3 royally!

 

[Rufus]

You haven’t acknolwedged anything I’ve shown you it’s a waste of my time you just want to argue . I’m too old to waste my time , so you have the last word

heres mine along with my motivation of mentioning it

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Your screaming at me at the top of your lungs doesn't change the fact that Rom 3:9-18 is not talking about the judgment of mankind.

 

[Rufus]

My mama used to say “ boy you’re hoppin’ mad ! “

And she was right in her assessment of you.

 

[Rufus]

you aren’t interested in a discussion about this with me your avoiding all the plain obvious things I’ve shown to support my position , but I understand

No, you haven't shown us how Paul and Holy Spirit are big screw-ups for omitting Ps 14:1 from Rom 3.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

No, you haven't shown us how Paul and Holy Spirit are big screw-ups for omitting Ps 14:1 from Rom 3.

Am I going to have to block you ? Or do you have maturity to find someone to discuss with in peace ?

 

[Genez]

You mock God, do you? Even the demons are spiritually more astute than you are; for they won't tread where you walk.

I only mocked your idea, Rufus.



Ohhh, now?

Should we christen you..........?

"Pope Rufus?"

Please.. Stop equating yourself to God.

You simply don't understand salvation by grace.

Calvinism tells you what you naturally 'want to believe.'
TULIP comforts you in knowing how much you hated God before you got saved.

For the time will come when they will not put up with sound doctrine. ​

Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great ​

number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.​

​

2 Timothy 4:3​

​

Grace enables volition supernaturally.
Grace does not force volition...

Irresistible grace would be equivalent to God confessing He is not worthy to be attractive
to a soul that has been made free of its flesh (by God's grace) to decide what he thinks about God.

........

 

[Genez]

No, you haven't shown us how Paul and Holy Spirit are big screw-ups for omitting Ps 14:1 from Rom 3.

WEAR EM OUT RUFUS! STICK TO YOUR FALSE DOCTRINE TILL YOU WEAR EM OUT!

...... ever ask who's cheering you on?

..............

 

[Genez]

I'm the one who says it is a completely free gift, from God's mercy and grace, remember? You guys believe that you have to do something to get it/earn it.

Your's is not a free gift. Its a baffling gift the way you have it.

 

[rogerg]

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

"his deeds": Christ's deeds.

Those who are of the elected/saved, are imputed Christ's righteousness, by which they manifest those attributes

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

Those who are not of the elected/saved, have not been imputed Christ's righteousness, are not forgiven their sin, and therefore, incur God's wrath.

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Those who are of the elected/saved, are imputed Christ's righteousness, by which, they are granted peace and honor from God.

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Those who do good, are of the elected/saved, are imputed Christ's righteousness, by which, they have done good unto the resurrection of life.
The unelected/unsaved, not having been imputed Christ's righteousness, and retaining their sins, resurrected unto damnation.

For the elected/saved, the righteousness of Jesus Christ is imputed unto them, by which, the attributes of true Christians are manifested. Nothing is by man.