The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation

[GWH]

Post #533.

Which stated, "The book of Revelation isn't that difficult if you understand that it is concerned with the end of the old covenant."

Apparently you did not understand that "omega" signified the end of history, including the OC.

Continuing, "Because God is gracious, He has the Apostle John write the book of Revelation so His people would be prepared for what was soon to unfold."

Apparently you did not understand that "the horror of the judgment that the enemies of God will reap" refers to what would unfold.

Okay, now that you understand we DO agree regarding the purpose of RV, please continue with your explanation of the imagery: the four living creatures in 4:6, the seven spirits of God in 5:6, the six seals in ch.6, the 144,000 in ch.7, the 7th seal & six angels plus one in ch.8-9, the mighty angel and little scroll in ch.10, the two witnesses in ch.11, the woman and the dragon in ch.12, the two beasts in ch.13, the six angels in ch.14, the seven angels & plagues in ch.15, the seven bowls in ch.16, Babylon in ch.17 &18, the war in ch.19, and the thousand years in ch.20.

 

[Cameron143]

Which stated, "The book of Revelation isn't that difficult if you understand that it is concerned with the end of the old covenant."

Apparently you did not understand that "omega" signified the end of history, including the OC.

Continuing, "Because God is gracious, He has the Apostle John write the book of Revelation so His people would be prepared for what was soon to unfold."

Apparently you did not understand that "the horror of the judgment that the enemies of God will reap" refers to what would unfold.

Okay, now that you understand we DO agree regarding the purpose of RV, please continue with your explanation of the imagery: the four living creatures in 4:6, the seven spirits of God in 5:6, the six seals in ch.6, the 144,000 in ch.7, the 7th seal & six angels plus one in ch.8-9, the mighty angel and little scroll in ch.10, the two witnesses in ch.11, the woman and the dragon in ch.12, the two beasts in ch.13, the six angels in ch.14, the seven angels & plagues in ch.15, the seven bowls in ch.16, Babylon in ch.17 &18, the war in ch.19, and the thousand years in ch.20.

We don't agree as to the purpose. Alpha and Omega refer to a person, not history. And Israel was the enemy being destroyed.
Have you ever read the parable in Matthew 21: 33-46. This is a synopsis of Jewish history. The book of Revelation answers the question in verse 40.

 

[GWH]

We don't agree as to the purpose. Alpha and Omega refer to a person, not history. And Israel was the enemy being destroyed.
Have you ever read the parable in Matthew 21: 33-46. This is a synopsis of Jewish history. The book of Revelation answers the question in verse 40.

It seems that you like to quibble. A&O refers to Jesus embodying salvation history! And Christians are spiritual Israel, so the enemy being destroyed is the anti-Christ/s. It is true that the Jews who are anti-Christ are the subject of the parable in MT 21:33-46, but their destruction will be shared by Gentile anti-Christs (cf. RM 11:21).

If you are done stalling, how about answering MY question regarding the RV imagery: the four living creatures in 4:6, the seven spirits of God in 5:6, the six seals in ch.6, the 144,000 in ch.7, the 7th seal & six angels plus one in ch.8-9, the mighty angel and little scroll in ch.10, the two witnesses in ch.11, the woman and the dragon in ch.12, the two beasts in ch.13, the six angels in ch.14, the seven angels & plagues in ch.15, the seven bowls in ch.16, Babylon in ch.17 &18, the war in ch.19, and the thousand years in ch.20?

 

[CS1]

FYI, this is catholic doctrine and is false. Nothing of the catholic church today is even worth listening to. The pope is an open apostate of our faith. Period. and here on CC, that is not permitted. Due to the fact, you say in the thread title :

The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation


Is more than questionable.

 

[Eli1]

It seems that you like to quibble.

Wait wait wait.
You think he likes to quibble and you don't?


All right, thanks for the laughs. Lunch is on me today.

 

[Cameron143]

It seems that you like to quibble. A&O refers to Jesus embodying salvation history! And Christians are spiritual Israel, so the enemy being destroyed is the anti-Christ/s. It is true that the Jews who are anti-Christ are the subject of the parable in MT 21:33-46, but their destruction will be shared by Gentile anti-Christs (cf. RM 11:21).

If you are done stalling, how about answering MY question regarding the RV imagery: the four living creatures in 4:6, the seven spirits of God in 5:6, the six seals in ch.6, the 144,000 in ch.7, the 7th seal & six angels plus one in ch.8-9, the mighty angel and little scroll in ch.10, the two witnesses in ch.11, the woman and the dragon in ch.12, the two beasts in ch.13, the six angels in ch.14, the seven angels & plagues in ch.15, the seven bowls in ch.16, Babylon in ch.17 &18, the war in ch.19, and the thousand years in ch.20?

I'm not quibbling. I posited at the outset that the purpose of the book of Revelation is important to understanding the imagery. Still I can point you to the source of the imagery.
Starting in 4:6 read Ezekiel 1 and share your thoughts.

 

[GWH]

I'm not quibbling. I posited at the outset that the purpose of the book of Revelation is important to understanding the imagery. Still I can point you to the source of the imagery.
Starting in 4:6 read Ezekiel 1 and share your thoughts.

Okay, reading EZK 1: He had a vision of a windstorm and fire/light, in the center of which were four living creatures, each of which had four faces and four wings arranged in a square facing outward. Each face was human between the faces of a lion and an ox with faces of an eagle somewhere. Two wings spread out upward, and the other two went downward over its body. They moved in unison with the fiery spirit as lightning flashed among them. Beside each creature was a wheel intersecting another wheel. The rims of the wheels were full of eyes all around. The spirit made the creatures move laterally and upward. A vault stretched over the creatures, and the sound of their wings when they moved was like a roaring river, an army host, or the Almighty's voice. Above the vault was a throne, and on the throne was a man, whose waist glowed like brilliant metal or a rainbow. Upon seeing the likeness of the Lord, Ezekiel fell facedown to the ground and heard a voice speak.

This chapter's description is abbreviated in RV 4:6-8.

 

[Cameron143]

Okay, reading EZK 1: He had a vision of a windstorm and fire/light, in the center of which were four living creatures, each of which had four faces and four wings arranged in a square facing outward. Each face was human between the faces of a lion and an ox with faces of an eagle somewhere. Two wings spread out upward, and the other two went downward over its body. They moved in unison with the fiery spirit as lightning flashed among them. Beside each creature was a wheel intersecting another wheel. The rims of the wheels were full of eyes all around. The spirit made the creatures move laterally and upward. A vault stretched over the creatures, and the sound of their wings when they moved was like a roaring river, an army host, or the Almighty's voice. Above the vault was a throne, and on the throne was a man, whose waist glowed like brilliant metal or a rainbow. Upon seeing the likeness of the Lord, Ezekiel fell facedown to the ground and heard a voice speak.

This chapter's description is abbreviated in RV 4:6-8.

Good synopsis. So who or what are the four living creatures?

 

[GWH]

Good synopsis. So who or what are the four living creatures?

Well, they are called "cherubim" in EZK 9&10, and they served in the envisioned temple, giving hot coals to a man in linen (9:3&10:7). They resemble the seraphim mentioned in IS 6:2-4, who exclaimed "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord Almighty, the whole earth is full of His glory!"

RV 4:8 says that "Day and night the creatures never stop saying: Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was [alpha], who is [history] and who is to come [omega]." Their praise prompts twenty-four elders (commonly understood as the 12 tribes and 12 apostles) to worship the man on the throne (4:10-11) along with a host of angels who encircle the throne (5:11-14).

 

[Cameron143]

Well, they are called "cherubim" in EZK 9&10, and they served in the envisioned temple, giving hot coals to a man in linen (9:3&10:7). They resemble the seraphim mentioned in IS 6:2-4, who exclaimed "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord Almighty, the whole earth is full of His glory!"

RV 4:8 says that "Day and night the creatures never stop saying: Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was [alpha], who is [history] and who is to come [omega]." Their praise prompts twenty-four elders (commonly understood as the 12 tribes and 12 apostles) to worship the man on the throne (4:10-11) along with a host of angels who encircle the throne (5:11-14).

Good. Easily explained. They are angelic beings who spend time in God's presence and also carry out His will throughout His creation. Not so hard to understand.

 

[Cameron143]

Revelation 5:6...7 Spirits
Read Isaiah 11:1-2.

 

[GWH]

Revelation 5:6...7 Spirits
Read Isaiah 11:1-2.

IS 11:2, "The Spirit (2) of the Lord will rest upon him [the Branch from Jesse]", the Spirit of wisdom (2) and of understanding (3),
the Spirit of counsel (4) and of might (5), the Spirit of the knowledge (6) and fear of the Lord (7).

RV 5:6b, "The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth."

 

[Cameron143]

IS 11:2, "The Spirit (2) of the Lord will rest upon him [the Branch from Jesse]", the Spirit of wisdom (2) and of understanding (3),
the Spirit of counsel (4) and of might (5), the Spirit of the knowledge (6) and fear of the Lord (7).

RV 5:6b, "The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth."

There's your 7 Spirits. Easy peasy.

 

[GWH]

There's your 7 Spirits. Easy peasy.

Yes, we have the four living creatures in EZK 4:6 identified as referring to the cherubim in EZK 9&10, who resemble the seraphim mentioned in IS 6:2-4, who exclaimed "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord Almighty. Also, we have the seven spirits of God in EZK 5:6 identified as the spirits mentioned in IS 11:2,: "The Spirit of the Lord (1), of wisdom (2), of understanding (3), of counsel (4), of might (5), of the knowledge (6) and fear of the Lord (7).

That leaves the following imagery to be covered: the six seals in ch.6, the 144,000 in ch.7, the 7th seal & six angels plus one in ch.8-9, the mighty angel and little scroll in ch.10, the two witnesses in ch.11, the woman and the dragon in ch.12, the two beasts in ch.13, the six angels in ch.14, the seven angels & plagues in ch.15, the seven bowls in ch.16, Babylon in ch.17 &18, the war in ch.19, and the thousand years in ch.20?

 

[Cameron143]

Yes, we have the four living creatures in EZK 4:6 identified as referring to the cherubim in EZK 9&10, who resemble the seraphim mentioned in IS 6:2-4, who exclaimed "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord Almighty. Also, we have the seven spirits of God in EZK 5:6 identified as the spirits mentioned in IS 11:2,: "The Spirit of the Lord (1), of wisdom (2), of understanding (3), of counsel (4), of might (5), of the knowledge (6) and fear of the Lord (7).

That leaves the following imagery to be covered: the six seals in ch.6, the 144,000 in ch.7, the 7th seal & six angels plus one in ch.8-9, the mighty angel and little scroll in ch.10, the two witnesses in ch.11, the woman and the dragon in ch.12, the two beasts in ch.13, the six angels in ch.14, the seven angels & plagues in ch.15, the seven bowls in ch.16, Babylon in ch.17 &18, the war in ch.19, and the thousand years in ch.20?

Chapter 6...6 seals
Read Daniel 12.
What connections do you make with both chapter 5 and chapter 6.

 

[GWH]

Chapter 6...6 seals
Read Daniel 12.
What connections do you make with both chapter 5 and chapter 6.

I, RV 6:1-2: Rider with a bow on a white horse; II, v.3-4: Rider with a sword on a red horse; III v.5-6: Rider with scales on a black horse;
IV v.7-8: Death on a pale horse followed by Hades; V v.9-11: martyrs were given white robes; VI v.12-14: an earthquake and heaven-shake caused people to seek shelter in caves.

DN 12:1-4: There will be a time of great distress, but those whose names are in the book of life will be delivered while others will be resurrected, some to eternal life and others to everlasting shame. Those who lead folks to righteousness will shine like the stars, and while the scroll is sealed many will go out to increase knowledge. Then Daniel asked the man in linen how long it would be until these things are fulfilled, and the man answered, It will be for a time, times and half a time..." Daniel did not understand, but the man said that wickedness will continue but the wise will understand. "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up there will be 1,290 days, Blessed is the one who endures for 1,335 days. Now go your way, and after your rest you will rise to receive your inheritance."

The connection is that RV describes the time of distress cited in DN.

 

[Cameron143]

I, RV 6:1-2: Rider with a bow on a white horse; II, v.3-4: Rider with a sword on a red horse; III v.5-6: Rider with scales on a black horse;
IV v.7-8: Death on a pale horse followed by Hades; V v.9-11: martyrs were given white robes; VI v.12-14: an earthquake and heaven-shake caused people to seek shelter in caves.

DN 12:1-4: There will be a time of great distress, but those whose names are in the book of life will be delivered while others will be resurrected, some to eternal life and others to everlasting shame. Those who lead folks to righteousness will shine like the stars, and while the scroll is sealed many will go out to increase knowledge. Then Daniel asked the man in linen how long it would be until these things are fulfilled, and the man answered, It will be for a time, times and half a time..." Daniel did not understand, but the man said that wickedness will continue but the wise will understand. "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up there will be 1,290 days, Blessed is the one who endures for 1,335 days. Now go your way, and after your rest you will rise to receive your inheritance."

The connection is that RV describes the time of distress cited in DN.

It does more than describe it. It also gives the timing. Can you figure it out?

 

[GWH]

It does more than describe it. It also gives the timing. Can you figure it out?

Jesus said in MT 24:15-16, "So when you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand--then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."

Perhaps this mean from the time the temple was abolished until Iran drops an A-bomb on Jerusalem and the cloud mushrooms over the temple area there will be 1,290 days. Then there will be another 45 days until the Rapture.

 

[DJT_47]

Psalms 119:160 says that the “SUM” of God’s word is truth. You must accept everything that God says saves us. Most denominations only accept the part that they like, and reject anything else even if God says it. That is a mistake that will cause you to lose your soul. Not only are we not to “ADD” to God’s word, but we are not to TAKE AWAY from what He says either. Deut. 4:2, Proverbs 30:6 and Rev. 22:18-19.

If you want to know God’s truth on what to do to be saved, then here is what God says in His word: Romans 10:17 tells us that faith comes by hearing the WORD OF GOD. THAT is where we start. We don’t wait for the Holy Spirit to “ZAP” us with knowledge. I’m talking about preaching God’s knowledge, Paul said that God put this “treasure” in EARTHEN VESSELS”. 2Corinthians 4:7. The ones who preach and teach God’s word are the earthen vessels who tell us God’s gospel. Matthew 28:18-19. So, being taught or hearing the gospel is the first step, Jesus tells us Himself what to do next—“He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.” FAITH is necessary Hebrews 11:6. We must believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Romans 10:10 gives us another step. “ With the mouth CONFESSION is made unto salvation.” Matt. 10:32 says we MUST confess Jesus (as the son of God). This confession is not confessing our sins but confessing our faith in Jesus as the Son of God. We are taught this in the example of the Ethiopian eunuch innActs 8. He confessed His faith in Christ just before his baptism. Repentance is necessary and should have been put before confession. Acts 2:38 is Peter’s answer to “what shall we do?” He says to REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. And the last and final step is BAPTISM.

All you have to do to be lost is just leave out one step or one thing that Jesus commanded. AndcSatan has been very successful in deceiving people so that they reject baptism “for the remission of sins “ like Peter said. They reject what Jesus says in Mark 16:16–that baptism comes BEFORE salvation. They refuse to believe what Peter says in 1 Peter 3:21 that BAPTISM SAVES US. Remember Rev. 22:18-19. They have “TAKEN AWAY” baptism as necessary to salvation when God has clearly put it there. Remember we are to PUT IT ALL TOGETHER and take the SUM of everything God has said. Only then do we have the “TRUTH.”

Prove this to yourself. Look at every conversion in the book of Acts and just see how people in the 1st century were saved. Not every step was mentioned in each example but in EVERY CASE everyone of them was baptized! (Acts 2, 8, 9, 10, 16, 22.).

God says you are NOT SAVED BY FAITH ONLY. James 2:24. No one is denying that faith is necessary—but God says there is more than that. If you only believe, you have left out all of the scriptures and commands on repentance, confession and baptism. You will come up short on Judgement day. Make sure you know all that God says to do—and then do it.

Yes! It's simple and can be summed up in a few verses and requirements
1. Belief and faith
2. Confession with the mouth of your belief as did the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8 and consistent with Romans 10:8-10
3. Repentance as were told the Jews on the day of Pentecost as recorded in Acts 2:38
4. Baptism into Christ, total immersion in water, for the remission of sins also per Acts 2:38.

That's it in a nutshell. Not belief alone, or faith only, nor repentance only, nor a phony, unscriptural type of baptism like of unbelieving infants by pouring water on them, but the answer above simple, logical steps.

 

[Cameron143]

Jesus said in MT 24:15-16, "So when you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand--then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."

Perhaps this mean from the time the temple was abolished until Iran drops an A-bomb on Jerusalem and the cloud mushrooms over the temple area there will be 1,290 days. Then there will be another 45 days until the Rapture.

That doesn't come from the passages you quoted. But there are definitely clues in Daniel 12 and Revelation 5 and 6.