The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation

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Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#521
Jul 3, 2015
61,149
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#521

^ Showing genesis of face...


^ Constructing border/frame, and selecting a background and working out other elements...


1 Corinthians 2:12; Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. We have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
:)
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#522
Oct 19, 2024
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#522
Magenta said:
I do try to bring everything into a visually pleasing balance, yes. Each finished piece needs to be unique. I start from scratch most of the time (a blank canvas), although recently I have started re-using border set-ups that I previously assembled. That means I don't use the whole image and just replace the text for a different panel. I did try doing that once or twice near the beginning and it was completely unsatisfying (LOL). With the increase of AI generated images on offer now I have way more faces and full-scene backgrounds to work with. I used to start with really arty faces and try to make them look more normal or do something else with them beyond what was already done. Now I often start with an AI face and add real eyes to it, or just keep the hair and facial outline and replace all the features, either piecemeal or from somebody else's face, whose eyes I may change again and make other edits to as well. Finding eyes looking from the correct angle is often the most challenging part, and then having the right expression. Even eyes that look close to the correct angle are made to look away if not exactly the right angle, and since I most often want the figure being viewed to be looking into the eyes of the viewer, looking slightly away is not always good enough. Sometimes in such a case I simply replace the irises. Then I must erase the first ones. One arty face I started with I was never really happy with what I was able to do with it. This one:

View attachment 270599

I put her on this panel with edits and a background I constructed:



But I was never happy with the face no matter what so I eventually completely changed it to this composite:


1 John 5:10-11
:)
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And I try to bring all of Scripture into a logically harmonious whole without erasing anything, starting from a blank slate or open mind. For the hard copy version of my book/website, I did peruse online art to find images that illustrated various points, but unfortunately they would not copy to my website version.

I just now googled Deuteronomy 30:19 and found six panels at <bible.art/gallery/deuteronomy-30:19> that illustrate the idea I had in mind.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#523
Jul 3, 2015
61,149
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#523
GWH said:
And I try to bring all of Scripture into a logically harmonious whole without erasing anything, starting from a blank slate or open mind. For the hard copy version of my book/website, I did peruse online art to find images that illustrated various points, but unfortunately they would not copy to my website version.

I just now googled Deuteronomy 30:19 and found six panels at <bible.art/gallery/deuteronomy-30:19> that illustrate the idea I had in mind.
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I had never heard of that site before. I am glad you were able to find what you wanted, though, because that translates into there being no need for me to do it for you since I am not into copying other people's work. Some of them are quite weird LOL. I don't get what's up with the spelling on this one (<= link) and this one? I realize it is a different verse but the style is out there. Of course people have said all kinds of stuff about my style including calling it demonic. Any ways... The problem with people saying they erase nothing when they bring Scripture into a logical harmonious whole is that they obviously do actually remove particular concepts and deny others. Certain things get pointed out again and again and they are largely ignored or attempted to be explained away with the explanation falling flat and failing to properly synthesize all. People also read all manner of things into Scripture, make leaps of logic, assume much, and then trying to get some of them to acknowledge and admit that what they claim to believe and put forward as a proper understanding of what is written is not Biblical at all is like pulling teeth.
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#524
Oct 19, 2024
1,873
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#524
Magenta said:
I had never heard of that site before. I am glad you were able to find what you wanted, though, because that translates into there being no need for me to do it for you since I am not into copying other people's work. Some of them are quite weird LOL. I don't get what's up with the spelling on this one (<= link) and this one? I realize it is a different verse but the style is out there. Of course people have said all kinds of stuff about my style including calling it demonic. Any ways... The problem with people saying they erase nothing when they bring Scripture into a logical harmonious whole is that they obviously do actually remove particular concepts and deny others. Certain things get pointed out again and again and they are largely ignored or attempted to be explained away with the explanation falling flat and failing to properly synthesize all. People also read all manner of things into Scripture, make leaps of logic, assume much, and then trying to get some of them to acknowledge and admit that what they claim to believe and put forward as a proper understanding of what is written is not Biblical at all is like pulling teeth.
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Yes, discussion seeking agreement can easily deteriorate into endless argument if participants are not open minded and willing to change their opinion, which is when/why I end with making a bet that my interpretation erases less than others (because I know that I make a conscious effort not to saw off parts) although who is closer to the whole truth will not be known until both meet again in heaven. (Do you think I saw off parts, and if so, then which and I will reconsider my beliefs unless there is no good reason to agree with you IMO. :^)
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#525
Oct 19, 2024
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#525
decipher said:
Never mind for meaning of POS. I just figured it out.
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Okay, and God's Way is Jesus per JN 14:6, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Cf. 1TM 2:5-6a, "There is one God and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people."
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#526
Oct 19, 2024
1,873
452
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#526
GWH said:
Yes, discussion seeking agreement can easily deteriorate into endless argument if participants are not open minded and willing to change their opinion, which is when/why I end with making a bet that my interpretation erases less than others (because I know that I make a conscious effort not to saw off parts) although who is closer to the whole truth will not be known until both meet again in heaven. (Do you think I saw off parts, and if so, then which and I will reconsider my beliefs unless there is no good reason to agree with you IMO. :^)
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As far as I am aware, the closest I come to sawing off a part is my ignoring of angelology and RV, because I frankly do not understand these doctrines in detail.

Regarding angels, I merely understand that they were theophanies or incarnations of God, with one appearing to Balaam's donkey in the OT, and they announced the incarnation of Christ and are called "ministering spirits" in the NT, although this seems to conflict with the ministry of the HS.

Regarding Revelation, I join the crowd who cannot make much sense of it beyond that Judgment Day will come. Amen!
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#527
Mar 1, 2022
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#527
GWH said:
As far as I am aware, the closest I come to sawing off a part is my ignoring of angelology and RV, because I frankly do not understand these doctrines in detail.

Regarding angels, I merely understand that they were theophanies or incarnations of God, with one appearing to Balaam's donkey in the OT, and they announced the incarnation of Christ and are called "ministering spirits" in the NT, although this seems to conflict with the ministry of the HS.

Regarding Revelation, I join the crowd who cannot make much sense of it beyond that Judgment Day will come. Amen!
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Or came. Revelation isn't difficult if you understand it is dealing with the end of a covenant...end of the age. God established a covenant with Israel with stipulations and sanctions for failure to keep those terms...Deuteronomy. When Isreal filled up the measure of their sin, God brought the promised ramifications of this failure to uphold the covenant...Revelation.
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#528
Oct 19, 2024
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#528
Cameron143 said:
Or came. Revelation isn't difficult if you understand it is dealing with the end of a covenant...end of the age. God established a covenant with Israel with stipulations and sanctions for failure to keep those terms...Deuteronomy. When Isreal filled up the measure of their sin, God brought the promised ramifications of this failure to uphold the covenant...Revelation.
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Well, I understand RV as the omega bookend for the alpha GN (RV 1:8&17), but that does not explain the details following Christ's admonitions to the seven churches, including the four living creatures in 4:6, the seven spirits of God in 5:6, the six seals in ch.6, the 144,000 in ch.7, the 7th seal & six angels plus one in ch.8-9, the mighty angel and little scroll in ch.10, the two witnesses in ch.11, the woman and the dragon in ch.12, the two beasts in ch.13, the six angels in ch.14, the seven angels & plagues in ch.15, the seven bowls in ch.16, Babylon in ch.17 &18, the war in ch.19, and the thousand years in ch.20. Ch.21 &22 I think I understand. Yay!
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#529
Mar 1, 2022
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#529
GWH said:
Well, I understand RV as the omega bookend for the alpha GN (RV 1:8&17), but that does not explain the details following Christ's admonitions to the seven churches, including the four living creatures in 4:6, the seven spirits of God in 5:6, the six seals in ch.6, the 144,000 in ch.7, the 7th seal & six angels plus one in ch.8-9, the mighty angel and little scroll in ch.10, the two witnesses in ch.11, the woman and the dragon in ch.12, the two beasts in ch.13, the six angels in ch.14, the seven angels & plagues in ch.15, the seven bowls in ch.16, Babylon in ch.17 &18, the war in ch.19, and the thousand years in ch.20. Ch.21 &22 I think I understand. Yay!
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Well there you have it...you would rather mock than learn. You make a comment about not understanding a portion of scripture and someone offers help and you have jokes. This is a little surprising as you regard yourself as a teacher, but I guess teachers often forget they are also students.
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#530
Oct 19, 2024
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#530
Cameron143 said:
Well there you have it...you would rather mock than learn. You make a comment about not understanding a portion of scripture and someone offers help and you have jokes. This is a little surprising as you regard yourself as a teacher, but I guess teachers often forget they are also students.
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That was no joke that your offer didn’t help much although I appreciate the thought. However you apparently missed me saying that I consider myself to be a learner and sharer of what I believe the Lord/GW has taught me.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#531
Mar 1, 2022
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#531
GWH said:
That was no joke that your offer didn’t help much although I appreciate the thought. However you apparently missed me saying that I consider myself to be a learner and sharer of what I believe the Lord/GW has taught me.
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Did you believe you would understand Revelation after 1 post? At least you are an optimist.
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#532
Oct 19, 2024
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#532
Cameron143 said:
Did you believe you would understand Revelation after 1 post? At least you are an optimist.
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I was curious to see what insight you might have, so feel free to post again or else join me in admitting ignorance.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#533
Mar 1, 2022
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#533
GWH said:
I was curious to see what insight you might have, so feel free to post again or else join me in admitting ignorance.
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If you return to the original post I wrote that understanding the book of Revelation isn't that difficult if you understand that it is concerned with the end of the old covenant. The book has the same outline as the book of Deuteronomy in which God instituted the old covenant with Israel. In Deuteronomy, God outlines the stipulations or terms of the covenant as well as the sanctions that would come if Israel failed to live up to the terms of the covenant.
Israel did fail to keep the terms of the covenant and filled up their measure of sin in the killing of God's Son. Because God is gracious, He has the Apostle John write the book of Revelation so His people would be prepared for what was soon to unfold.
Most people get caught up in the imagery first before understanding what God's purpose was in writing the book and because they don't understand the imagery, they feel understanding the book is difficult, if not impossible.
This is what I was attempting to point out to you in the hopes that you would find a study of Revelation more tenable.
If you want to delve deeper, I'm amenable. But there is no reason to view any part of scripture as daunting. God is increasingly glorified as He is revealed. It's in God's interest to reveal Himself.
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#534
Oct 19, 2024
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452
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#534
Cameron143 said:
If you return to the original post I wrote that understanding the book of Revelation isn't that difficult if you understand that it is concerned with the end of the old covenant. The book has the same outline as the book of Deuteronomy in which God instituted the old covenant with Israel. In Deuteronomy, God outlines the stipulations or terms of the covenant as well as the sanctions that would come if Israel failed to live up to the terms of the covenant.
Israel did fail to keep the terms of the covenant and filled up their measure of sin in the killing of God's Son. Because God is gracious, He has the Apostle John write the book of Revelation so His people would be prepared for what was soon to unfold.
Most people get caught up in the imagery first before understanding what God's purpose was in writing the book and because they don't understand the imagery, they feel understanding the book is difficult, if not impossible.
This is what I was attempting to point out to you in the hopes that you would find a study of Revelation more tenable.
If you want to delve deeper, I'm amenable. But there is no reason to view any part of scripture as daunting. God is increasingly glorified as He is revealed. It's in God's interest to reveal Himself.
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I understand the purpose of RV but that leaves us to understand the imagery: the four living creatures in 4:6, the seven spirits of God in 5:6, the six seals in ch.6, the 144,000 in ch.7, the 7th seal & six angels plus one in ch.8-9, the mighty angel and little scroll in ch.10, the two witnesses in ch.11, the woman and the dragon in ch.12, the two beasts in ch.13, the six angels in ch.14, the seven angels & plagues in ch.15, the seven bowls in ch.16, Babylon in ch.17 &18, the war in ch.19, and the thousand years in ch.20.

(I am happy to delve deeper if you are :^)
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#535
Mar 1, 2022
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#535
GWH said:
I understand the purpose of RV but that leaves us to understand the imagery: the four living creatures in 4:6, the seven spirits of God in 5:6, the six seals in ch.6, the 144,000 in ch.7, the 7th seal & six angels plus one in ch.8-9, the mighty angel and little scroll in ch.10, the two witnesses in ch.11, the woman and the dragon in ch.12, the two beasts in ch.13, the six angels in ch.14, the seven angels & plagues in ch.15, the seven bowls in ch.16, Babylon in ch.17 &18, the war in ch.19, and the thousand years in ch.20.

(I am happy to delve deeper if you are :^)
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Ok. All the imagery is OT imagery and would have been understood by most 1st century Jews. We can take them one at a time if you like. I would also recommend a book by Chilton called Days of Vengeance which deals with this subject and to which I owe much of my understanding of the book of Revelation. It is available for download free. A hard copy can be expensive.
I'll start with the 4 living creatures a little later. I need to look at some notes I don't have access to currently.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#536
Mar 1, 2022
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#536
GWH said:
I understand the purpose of RV but that leaves us to understand the imagery: the four living creatures in 4:6, the seven spirits of God in 5:6, the six seals in ch.6, the 144,000 in ch.7, the 7th seal & six angels plus one in ch.8-9, the mighty angel and little scroll in ch.10, the two witnesses in ch.11, the woman and the dragon in ch.12, the two beasts in ch.13, the six angels in ch.14, the seven angels & plagues in ch.15, the seven bowls in ch.16, Babylon in ch.17 &18, the war in ch.19, and the thousand years in ch.20.

(I am happy to delve deeper if you are :^)
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Also, what do you see as the purpose of the book of Revelation?
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#537
Oct 19, 2024
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#537
Cameron143 said:
Also, what do you see as the purpose of the book of Revelation?
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Re: "I'll start with the 4 living creatures a little later. I need to look at some notes I don't have access to currently." Okay.

I see the purpose of RV as providing the omega bookend to the history of God's POS. It encourages perseverance of the saints and portrays the horror of the judgment that the enemies of God will reap.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#538
Mar 1, 2022
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#538
GWH said:
Re: "I'll start with the 4 living creatures a little later. I need to look at some notes I don't have access to currently." Okay.

I see the purpose of RV as providing the omega bookend to the history of God's POS. It encourages perseverance of the saints and portrays the horror of the judgment that the enemies of God will reap.
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This isn't the purpose of the book of Revelation. But, you are welcome to believe it is. If you don't understand the purpose, I can identify some of the imagery for you but you won't understand it in context.
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#539
Oct 19, 2024
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#539
Cameron143 said:
This isn't the purpose of the book of Revelation. But, you are welcome to believe it is. If you don't understand the purpose, I can identify some of the imagery for you but you won't understand it in context.
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Okay, so what do you say is the purpose?
 
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