What is the proof Jesus is eternally begotten son?
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Right that's your contradiction. I have said no false accusation nor nothing amiss. You can't hold to Jesus both being the eternally begotten Son and also claim that Jesus is a created being that became God only at his resurrection, which is what the followers of Arianism believed. Therefore I suggest to get rid of the heresy that Jesus is only begotten at the resurrection and became God then, and retain that Jesus is the eternally begotten Son of God, very God from very God.
https://www.equip.org/articles/begotten-father-ages/
Here you go, here's an article for you all on why the Early Church and the saints official say Jesus is the eternally begotten Son of God as opposed to the heretics of their time who claimed otherwise.
Here you go, here's an article for you all on why the Early Church and the saints official say Jesus is the eternally begotten Son of God as opposed to the heretics of their time who claimed otherwise.
No, I said there is no mention of begotten in the text of John 1:1-2
SonJudgment said:
The principle verses are from John 1, though indeed there are others, some of which have already been posted, praise Jesus.
John 1:1-2
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
PaulThomson said:
There is no mention of the Word being begotten in that text. (i.e. John 1:1-2)
SonJudgment said:
The principle verses are from John 1, though indeed there are others, some of which have already been posted, praise Jesus.
John 1:1-2
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
PaulThomson said:
There is no mention of the Word being begotten in that text. (i.e. John 1:1-2)
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You are obviously wrong there. I myself am a counter-example. I personally do not think Jesus is a created being. My perspective is that the Person who became Jesus has always existed as the same Person. I do not believe that the Son is just another mode of God. I do not confuse the Son with the Father. And and I do not believe Jesus was eternally begotten, because the Bible never says the Son was eternally begotten. Nor, fortunately for you, is there any biblical evidence that an inaccurate Christology will automatically guarantee hellfire.
“names can indeed be blotted out of the book of life. “
Amen Yes I agree that’s what i was meaning by other scripture being able to teach us more about the subject’s we notice in single verses for instance Moses knew about it
“Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin–; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”
Exodus 32:32-33 KJV
and we can also make this correlation to being “ blotted out of his book of life “
“Behold, all souls are mine; ( every name that has life and breath is in his book ) as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
Ezekiel 18:4
“Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”
that’s still the same Lords word it’s coming from heaven ,only it’s before the part of the plan for him to be born in the flesh as the son has come, Gods always known the plan. And has been foretelling it through the prophets
“The LORD is in his holy temple, The LORD's throne is in heaven:
His eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.”
Psalm 11:4 KJV
eventually if you take those couple things he’s said in with this
“The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, And seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: There is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
Psalm 14:2-3 KJV
“for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
Romans 3:23 KJV
“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
Romans 5:12
then you have all mankind all who have ever sinned being condemned to death and destruction being blotted out of his book of life
Bit thank God that’s not the end of his plan !!
But he’s merciful so instead of holding everyone’s sins against them by the law , he’s made an atonement for mankind’s sin a “Propitiation “ in the place of the demand upon our living souls for death.
“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;”
1 Corinthians 15:3 KJV
and so every sinner can have this word of death for sin fulfilled in Christ and doesn’t have to be condemned by thier sins and be blotted out of the book of life they can be saved from that.
So we know everyone is condemned by sin to be blotted out of his book in the ot but then he revealed more of his plan to redeem and save us from our sins and the condemnation awaiting mankind when we die in the New Testament
“He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.”
Revelation 3:5 KJV
I think when we only read single verses like this
“And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
Revelation 20:15 KJV
it can be interpreted that “ only some were written in the book to begin with “
but ( I think only my opinion ) when you read more about it just a few examples of many here regarding his book . You can see that the living are in the book and then later , thier sin is what causes them to be blotted out of his book .
And then you look at the gospel and see that even though we sinners are all due to be blotted out ,but thanks be to God that Jesus the son offers us a way to be saved from being blotted out because of our sins , to be saved from that final edit ….
Amen Yes I agree that’s what i was meaning by other scripture being able to teach us more about the subject’s we notice in single verses for instance Moses knew about it
“Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin–; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”
Exodus 32:32-33 KJV
and we can also make this correlation to being “ blotted out of his book of life “
“Behold, all souls are mine; ( every name that has life and breath is in his book ) as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
Ezekiel 18:4
“Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”
that’s still the same Lords word it’s coming from heaven ,only it’s before the part of the plan for him to be born in the flesh as the son has come, Gods always known the plan. And has been foretelling it through the prophets
“The LORD is in his holy temple, The LORD's throne is in heaven:
His eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.”
Psalm 11:4 KJV
eventually if you take those couple things he’s said in with this
“The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, And seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: There is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
Psalm 14:2-3 KJV
“for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
Romans 3:23 KJV
“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
Romans 5:12
then you have all mankind all who have ever sinned being condemned to death and destruction being blotted out of his book of life
Bit thank God that’s not the end of his plan !!
But he’s merciful so instead of holding everyone’s sins against them by the law , he’s made an atonement for mankind’s sin a “Propitiation “ in the place of the demand upon our living souls for death.
“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;”
1 Corinthians 15:3 KJV
and so every sinner can have this word of death for sin fulfilled in Christ and doesn’t have to be condemned by thier sins and be blotted out of the book of life they can be saved from that.
So we know everyone is condemned by sin to be blotted out of his book in the ot but then he revealed more of his plan to redeem and save us from our sins and the condemnation awaiting mankind when we die in the New Testament
“He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.”
Revelation 3:5 KJV
I think when we only read single verses like this
“And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
Revelation 20:15 KJV
it can be interpreted that “ only some were written in the book to begin with “
but ( I think only my opinion ) when you read more about it just a few examples of many here regarding his book . You can see that the living are in the book and then later , thier sin is what causes them to be blotted out of his book .
And then you look at the gospel and see that even though we sinners are all due to be blotted out ,but thanks be to God that Jesus the son offers us a way to be saved from being blotted out because of our sins , to be saved from that final edit ….
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1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
From everlasting is no beginning.
Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Jesus is God who has no beginning and cannot be a begotten God for there was no God formed after God or before God.
Also God means supreme being which if Jesus was begotten as a God then He would not be the supreme being, and not equal.
Also a created God is a contradiction for God makes nothing from His Spirit but He would be made from physical matter but then what kind of a God would that be that God could be broken down to physical matter.
God created nothing from His Spirit for then how can He be omnipresent and nothing can be made from His Spirit for it is His substance.
Jesus is called so He has no beginning and supreme being.
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
God calls things that have not happened yet as though they already happened for it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning, for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.
In the beginning was the plan of God to come in the future in flesh and without that plan He would of not created anything that was created for Jesus is the reason creation is successful eternal life, and to judge the angels and people.
Jesus is the beginning of creation according to His humanity for God calls things that have not happened yet as though they already happened, and the man Christ Jesus is the mediator between God and men.
Jesus is God manifest in the flesh which He is the fulness of the Godhead bodily and the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God for He cannot be separated.
The man Christ Jesus does not have His own Spirit that moves around with Him for there cannot be a double portion of the Spirit in one area and an empty space where the Spirit is not at but He moves through the Spirit, and wherever He is at the Spirit is there.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
From everlasting is no beginning.
Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Jesus is God who has no beginning and cannot be a begotten God for there was no God formed after God or before God.
Also God means supreme being which if Jesus was begotten as a God then He would not be the supreme being, and not equal.
Also a created God is a contradiction for God makes nothing from His Spirit but He would be made from physical matter but then what kind of a God would that be that God could be broken down to physical matter.
God created nothing from His Spirit for then how can He be omnipresent and nothing can be made from His Spirit for it is His substance.
Jesus is called so He has no beginning and supreme being.
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
God calls things that have not happened yet as though they already happened for it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning, for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.
In the beginning was the plan of God to come in the future in flesh and without that plan He would of not created anything that was created for Jesus is the reason creation is successful eternal life, and to judge the angels and people.
Jesus is the beginning of creation according to His humanity for God calls things that have not happened yet as though they already happened, and the man Christ Jesus is the mediator between God and men.
Jesus is God manifest in the flesh which He is the fulness of the Godhead bodily and the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God for He cannot be separated.
The man Christ Jesus does not have His own Spirit that moves around with Him for there cannot be a double portion of the Spirit in one area and an empty space where the Spirit is not at but He moves through the Spirit, and wherever He is at the Spirit is there.
Based upon what ? Jesus is literally the only person ever born of a virgin with Gods word declaring it before hand that his son would be born of a virgin being Emmanuel god with us.it seems only begotten means only begotten in the doctrine of the Bible which teaches us of the birth of Christ the only begotten son
z
Jesus Christ has come in the flesh
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Jesus Christ has come in the flesh
Well fair enough, though I did say the principle text is John 1, meaning the entire chapter as the text, and merely gave the first two verses for brevity.
Well then like the other fellow you're holding a contradiction by trying to say Jesus is both eternal and also flirting with Arianism when you say that Jesus became Jesus only when he is begotten to the virgin Mary. Jesus cannot become Jesus only once, he always was Jesus and always wil be Jesus, which means he is the one and only eternally begotten Son of God, very God from very God. I suggest just get rid of the heretical notions that Jesus only became Jesus once, discard them, retain the good which is that Jesus is indeed eternal, the eternally begotten Son of God. As for guaranteed helfire, yea, if you don't believe Jesus is the eternally begotten Son of God then you are denying key and important detail about Jesus, so you'll definitely go to the hellfire (2 Peter 2) just like the saints official said you will, that s very much certain.
See the article posted in post #43 about why the saints official believed in eternal generation of Jesus as opposed to the heresy of Arianism and the heresy of modalism. Also see the Athanasian Creed, which I will link below.
https://www.ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html
Well then like the other fellow you're holding a contradiction by trying to say Jesus is both eternal and also flirting with Arianism when you say that Jesus became Jesus only when he is begotten to the virgin Mary. Jesus cannot become Jesus only once, he always was Jesus and always wil be Jesus, which means he is the one and only eternally begotten Son of God, very God from very God. I suggest just get rid of the heretical notions that Jesus only became Jesus once, discard them, retain the good which is that Jesus is indeed eternal, the eternally begotten Son of God. As for guaranteed helfire, yea, if you don't believe Jesus is the eternally begotten Son of God then you are denying key and important detail about Jesus, so you'll definitely go to the hellfire (2 Peter 2) just like the saints official said you will, that s very much certain.
See the article posted in post #43 about why the saints official believed in eternal generation of Jesus as opposed to the heresy of Arianism and the heresy of modalism. Also see the Athanasian Creed, which I will link below.
https://www.ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html
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'As God with perfect clearness, fullness, and strength, understands Himself, views His own essence, . . . that idea which God hath of Himself is absolutely Himself. This representation of the Divine nature and essence is the Divine nature and essence again: so that by God’s thinking of the Deity, [the Deity] must certainly be generated. Hereby there is another person begotten, there is another infinite, eternal, Almighty and most holy and the same God, the very same Divine nature. And this Person is the second person in the Trinity, the only begotten and dearly beloved Son of God. '(Works of Jonathan Edwards, 21:116–17)
#1. Proverbs 30:4
"Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?"
#2. Hebrews 1:1-2
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds."
#3. 1 John 4:14
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world."
#4. Psalms 2:12
"Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him."
Side Note:
Revelation 13:8
"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
....
"Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?"
- Hints at the existence of the Son even in the Old Testament.
#2. Hebrews 1:1-2
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds."
- Identifies Jesus as the eternal Son through whom God created the worlds.
#3. 1 John 4:14
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world."
- The Father sent the Son, affirming His preexistent Sonship.
#4. Psalms 2:12
"Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him."
- We are told to kiss the Son in the Old Testament.
Side Note:
Revelation 13:8
"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
- The Son’s redemptive work was planned from eternity.
....
If you think Jesus only became Jesus when he was conceived in the flesh of the virgin Mary you're basically flirting with Arianism, that's where you've gone wrong. Jesus was around before even Mary's ancestor Abraham. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever. Jesus is the only eternally begotten Son of God.
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