Understanding God’s election

[Genez]

No! By my example of submitting prayerfully to the Spirit so that HE will lead me into all truth, as Jesus promised. Evidently, though, the third person of the Godhead is not sufficient for you, is He? You'd rather blindly trust in flesh and blood! Did flesh and blood reveal to Peter who Jesus was!?

You are living proof that what you claim can be used to deceive.

What you are failing to realize is that I knew people like you in Bible college.
They were always drop outs and wanted to start their own following.

Being led into all truth includes finding an excellent pastor teacher.

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great
number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3

You are in that long line...

 

[Rufus]

Rufus... The master of overlooking what was said.
And, rushes in with saying something that is not accurate in application to make his point.

Now, if you can only get in cahoots with the fake news media?
You might be able to make a big name for yourself.

If you really want to please the Lord?
You need to find a good teacher.
To think its just 'you and the Holy Spirit'?
Is leading one into error..

How can we know?
You are a glaring proof!

There you go projecting again. Give me one text in scripture that teaches sinners are not worthy of eternal condemnation! Just ONE! Maybe YOU can dig up a "good teacher" to help you out here.

 

[Rufus]

You are living proof that what you claim can be used to deceive.

What you are failing to realize is that I knew people like you in Bible college.
They were always drop outs and wanted to start their own following.

Being led into all truth includes finding an excellent pastor teacher.

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great
number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3

You are in that long line...

As I said earlier, the God of infinite knowledge and understanding and THE SOURCE of all truth is obviously not qualified to lead you into all truth. Cursed is the one who places his trust in man (Jer 17:5)! It's no wonder at all that you're so ignorant of scripture. You just passively sit in front of your "good teacher" and let him spoon-feed you anything he wants -- and you call that your "biblical proof".

 

[Genez]

There you go projecting again. Give me one text in scripture that teaches sinners are not worthy of eternal condemnation! Just ONE! Maybe YOU can dig up a "good teacher" to help you out here.

You keep confusing those who are "in Adam" who are born not worthy of living with God.
With being worthy of Hell.

Worthy of Hell requires the willful rejection of the son.
Being naturally born of Adam being unworthy to live in His presence, is not the same reality.

 

[Genez]

As I said earlier, the God of infinite knowledge and understanding and THE SOURCE of all truth is obviously not qualified to lead you into all truth. Cursed is the one who places his trust in man (Jer 17:5)!

You are doing that very thing by trusting in your personal interpretation of what you choose to believe.

Isaiah 55:8

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.


Proverbs 3:5-7

Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct your paths.

Do not be wise in your own eyes;
Fear the Lord and depart from evil.

 

[Genez]

There you go projecting again. Give me one text in scripture that teaches sinners are not worthy of eternal condemnation! Just ONE! Maybe YOU can dig up a "good teacher" to help you out here.

You will only be effective with baby Christians .. or those with little Bible understanding caused from neglect.

 

[Rufus]

You keep confusing those who are "in Adam" who are born not worthy of living with God.
With being worthy of Hell.

Worthy of Hell requires the willful rejection of the son.
Being naturally born of Adam being unworthy to live in His presence, is not the same reality.

Anyone who is unworthy of living in God's presence, logically MUST be worthy of an existence separated from God. And since God dwells in the highest of heavens, this can only mean the unworthy deserve to live in hell. There is no third option....unless you're a Catholic. You're playing a bad game of semantics.

So...tell me: Do you consider yourself worthy of God's great salvation?

 

[Genez]

Anyone who is unworthy of living in God's presence, logically MUST be worthy of an existence separated from God.

But, that does not mean Hell.
Hell was created for Satan and his angels because they consciously did something knowingly evil against God.


Simply being born with defect, and being sent to hell for that reason alone?
Would be akin to the Roman practice of throwing infants with birth defects
into the rubbish field, or abandoned. Those infants did nothing wrong.

Hell is for those who have done something wrong....

That wrong would be to reject the drawing of God!
Like those mentioned in Romans 1:18-23 who rejected God's drawing them.

 

[cv5]

I haven't changed anything. The prophecy has been fulfilled...PERIOD! The prophet wasn't prophesying about a millennial kingdom thousands of years in the future of the Jewish exiles in Babylon. Rather, God promised through Ezekiel the imminent return of the Jews to their land. They would return to it shortly. And so they did, thanks largely to the royal decree of Cyrus, as Isaiah predicted.

Except for the missing 360 years of Ezekiel 4 course. Which when multiplied by "7 times" (Leviticus 26), you get 2520 years.
Which of course has been fulfilled just recently.

http://watchmanbiblestudy.com/BibleStudies/HIStoryOurFuture/Ezekiels430Days.html

Oh yes and another thing: Tell us, how long did it take the Jews who returned per Cyrus/Darius to rebuild the Temple?
THREE YEARS. Which of course leaves 1/2 year for the Satan-man to break the covenant, defile the Temple and begin the persecution of Israel.

Oh and another thing: Pray tell us which nations help Israel and provide shelter to them during the Great Tribulation?
Thats right: Ammon, Moab and Edom know nowadays as JORDAN, and what is in JORDAN? PETRA.
And what is the distance between Petra and Jerusalem? Thats right.....1,600 furlongs ***Rev 14***.

[Dan 11:41 KJV]
He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many [countries] shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, [even] Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

[Eze 4:4 KJV]
Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it: [according] to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon it thou shalt bear their iniquity.

[Eze 4:5 KJV]
For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.

[Eze 4:6 KJV]
And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

==============================================================================

 

[cv5]

Anyone who is unworthy of living in God's presence, logically MUST be worthy of an existence separated from God. And since God dwells in the highest of heavens, this can only mean the unworthy deserve to live in hell. There is no third option....unless you're a Catholic. You're playing a bad game of semantics.

So...tell me: Do you consider yourself worthy of God's great salvation?

God is "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance".

 

[cv5]

Sorry... I do not have 54 minutes to listen to that sermon.

Thanks anyway.

The last 10 minutes is all you need to FF to the 5-fold lie of Satan. Well worth your time.

 

[cv5]

But, that does not mean Hell.
Hell was created for Satan and his angels because they consciously did something knowingly evil against God.


Simply being born with defect, and being sent to hell for that reason alone?
Would be akin to the Roman practice of throwing infants with birth defects
into the rubbish field, or abandoned. Those infants did nothing wrong.

Hell is for those who have done something wrong....

That wrong would be to reject the drawing of God!
Like those mentioned in Romans 1:18-23 who rejected God's drawing them.

Calvinist commonly gloat at the prospect of hellfire for the lost.
Or in their case those who got a bad beat at the before-you-were-born lottery.

 

[Genez]

Calvinist commonly gloat at the prospect of hellfire for the lost.
Or in their case those who got a bad beat at the before-you-were-born lottery.

Romans 1:18-22, clearly reveals men being drawn by God who freely choose to reject!

​

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven ​

against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, ​

who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since ​

what may be known about God is plain to them, ​

because God has made it plain to them. ​

​

For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities​

—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly ​

seen, being understood from what has been made, ​

so that people are without excuse.​

​

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God ​

nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and ​

their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to ​

be wise, they became fools​

​

 

[Kroogz]

do you believe sinners deserve hell Yes or no

Yep. And this is what the Calvinists do. They focus on the creature and not the CREATOR.

In the calvies mind Christ was 10 to 15% successful in His work for mankind and Adam was the rock star in his work. Adam was 110% successful at turning ALL of mankind into garbage. And Christ was just lucky enough to clean up a few scraps of Adams mess. Nonsense.

Yes, sinners deserve hell. And You have The Lord Jesus Christ in such a tiny box you don't realize He paid for the sins of the WHOLE world. Unbelievers are judged for EVIL........Human good works. Deeds. Religion is Satan's ace trump. Even he knows Christ paid for ALL sin.

But this goes right over the calvies head and they will focus on the creature and sin, rather than His GRACE..........

Rom 5:20~~The Law came in so that the offense would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

Sin is increasing, growing larger with the passing of time. However, Grace is growing exponentially, without measure, It's overflowing to the extent it cannot be contained.

 

[Kroogz]

But, that does not mean Hell.
Hell was created for Satan and his angels because they consciously did something knowingly evil against God.


Simply being born with defect, and being sent to hell for that reason alone?
Would be akin to the Roman practice of throwing infants with birth defects
into the rubbish field, or abandoned. Those infants did nothing wrong.

Hell is for those who have done something wrong....

That wrong would be to reject the drawing of God!
Like those mentioned in Romans 1:18-23 who rejected God's drawing them.

Believers should be zealous about spreading His Good news and His salvation to all men.

It's amazing to watch believers who are zealous to spread hell and condemnation to the vast majority.

 

[Kroogz]

The right pastor teacher......He teaches you so well, that you can prove him wrong when he is in error. And he expects that from his students.

 

[Genez]

Yes, sinners deserve hell. .

God draws all sinners...
Those whom have been drawn, and rejected the drawing? They do deserve Hell.

Those born sinners, and have not yet rejected God's drawing, do not deserve hell.

While they make up their mind one way or the other? They are not yet deserving Hell.
Why?
For all of man's sins, Christ bore the penalty for while on the Cross!

Until they reject the drawing of God? All their sins are paid for.

It's evil that sends men to Hell, not man's sins.
Jesus died for our sins.
But, He could not die for evil.
For, to do so? To die for evil?
He would have had to reject Himself while hanging on the Cross!

Men deserve Hell after rejecting God's drawing them to Himself.

"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men."

Titus 2:11
​

grace and peace ........

 

[Genez]

The right pastor teacher......He teaches you so well, that you can prove him wrong when he is in error. And he expects that from his students.

Was that citing something I once said? For, I had.

 

[Kroogz]

God draws all sinners...
Those whom have been drawn, and rejected the drawing? They do deserve Hell.

Those born sinners, and have not yet rejected God's drawing, do not deserve hell.

While they make up their mind one way or the other? They are not yet deserving Hell.
Why?
For all of man's sins, Christ bore the penalty for while on the Cross!

Until they reject the drawing of God? All their sins are paid for.

It's evil that sends men to Hell, not man's sins.
Jesus died for our sins.
But, He could not die for evil.
For, to do so? To die for evil?
He would have had to reject Himself while hanging on the Cross!

Men deserve Hell after rejecting God's drawing them to Himself.

"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men."

Titus 2:11
​

grace and peace ........

I totally agree. He condemned us at birth. We had done nothing. So He is free to save babies, mentally ill and all those who cannot make a volitional choice for Christ.

His question is based on a false premise. All sin is paid for. So it's not a valid question.

 

[Kroogz]

Was that citing something I once said? For, I had.

No. But I am glad you had! That comes straight from my pastor teacher.