Would Christ Vote?

[sawdust]

but you say overthrow them and put ones that tickle your ears into power.

What??? Where on earth do you get that from what I said?

your only appeal is to emotion and a tacit assumption that the church should choose and appoint the worldly government

Church and state are separate. My appeal has been to scripture showing how secular governments are to be obeyed and how we, still being in the world, ought to be responsible citizens and exercise our civic duty.

Stop projecting your own emotional rationale on me.

moreover the record of history shows that the church grows and becomes stronger in its faith when it is persecuted,

That's your argument for not voting? Do nothing and allow evil to spread far and wide until it crushes all Christians through persecution?

name one who isn't.

heck name any human being, apart from Jesus Christ, who isn't.

which planet do you live on, btw?

We are all sinners that does not mean we are evil. Sin is a matter of the flesh, evil is a matter of the soul. If we were all evil souls, God would have to destroy us and start again but that might be too nuanced for your understanding.

silly little friend.

i do not depend on human regulations to 'protect me'

how long have you been a Christian?
do you know much about this Way?

You remind me of the joke where someone is stranded on their roof in a flood and knocks back the boat and the helicopter that came to save him saying, God will save me. On drowning and finding himself in heaven, asked God why He didn't save him to which God replied, I sent a boat and helicopter what more do you want?

I wonder who is really the "silly little friend"?

I see no point to any further conversation.

grace and peace.

 

[posthuman]

your argument for not voting?

the argument is that Christ would not - in fact did not - vote.

see thread title.

 

[sawdust]

the argument is that Christ would not - in fact did not - vote.

see thread title.

When was He given the opportunity? They didn't have elections as we know them in ancient Rome so your argument is rather nonsensical.

 

[5pacejunk]

If He did, I'd wager that He would cast His vote to liberate the captives, to pushback against and stand up to the oppressors, to give freedom and hope to others (as He would want it for Himself). He wouldn't cast a vote for liars, thieves, charlatans, con men, or those who take advantage of the weakest and most vulnerable among us. It is true that this is not our world, and that it should not be our focus, but it is also true that whatever we do to others, we do to Jesus. To fulfill the first great commandment, we must fulfill the second great commandment.

 

[posthuman]

When was He given the opportunity? They didn't have elections as we know them in ancient Rome so your argument is rather nonsensical.

He is God and could have chosen to be born as a man at any time in any place.

if God wanted to vote, He would have come to earth in something like a Greek city state, where there was actual democracy, or He would have given Israel a law that required them to vote for priests or something.

He did not.

instead He chose omnisciently and omnipotently to pitch His tent among us as a man in an oppressed, conquered people, and not raise a finger or even His voice against the occupying nation,
and the government He commanded Israel to have did not include voting.

so it is clear. God did not want the opportunity to vote, so He eschewed taking it. He instead gave us the example of living meekly and humbly, accepting the government that exists without trying to influence it.

that's just the witness of scripture.
interpret or ignore it however you wish.

 

[sawdust]

He is God and could have chosen to be born as a man at any time in any place.

if God wanted to vote, He would have come to earth in a Greek city state, or given Israel a law that required them to vote for priests or something.

He did not.
instead He chose omnisciently and omnipotently to pitch His tent among us as a man in an oppressed, conquered people, and not raise a finger or His voice against the occupying nation.

so it is clear. God did not want the opportunity to vote, so He eschewed taking it.

Sure mate, it was the right time simply because He didn't want to vote.

 

[posthuman]

Sure mate, it was the right time simply because He didn't want to vote.

No, if voting was something He intended to do, He would have, and He didn't.

the facts show voting was not necessary, not that He purposefully chose to avoid having the option of voting.
being God He could have created the opportunity for Himself, and He did not. that by itself shows He would not vote even without all the evidence of the government He gave Israel and the Kingdom He reigns over.

even in our hearts we don't 'vote' Him into Lordship: we don't give Him authority but submit to the authority He has by virtue of His identity.

 

[sawdust]

No, if voting was something He intended to do, He would have, and He didn't.

the facts show voting was not necessary, not that He purposefully chose to avoid having the option of voting.
being God He could have created the opportunity for Himself, and He did not. that by itself shows He would not vote even without all the evidence of the government He gave Israel and the Kingdom He reigns over.

even in our hearts we don't 'vote' Him into Lordship: we don't give Him authority but submit to the authority He has by virtue of His identity.

I have no problem with facts, just your interpretation of them.

He never sent an email, text, phone call or made an online post so best we all stop communicating electronically as well. Afterall, if He wanted to do any of those things, He would have come at a different time but He purposefully chose to avoid those options.

When Rev.11:15 comes to fruition then I will gladly stop voting but until His kingdom is done on earth as it is in heaven, I will continue to exercise my civic responsibility and elect those who I believe represent the interests of my country the best as that is the way our nations are run at present.


Have a great day.

btw I guess we will have to throw out the Doctrine of Election.

 

[GWH]

He is God and could have chosen to be born as a man at any time in any place.

if God wanted to vote, He would have come to earth in something like a Greek city state, where there was actual democracy, or He would have given Israel a law that required them to vote for priests or something.

He did not.

instead He chose omnisciently and omnipotently to pitch His tent among us as a man in an oppressed, conquered people, and not raise a finger or even His voice against the occupying nation,
and the government He commanded Israel to have did not include voting.

so it is clear. God did not want the opportunity to vote, so He eschewed taking it. He instead gave us the example of living meekly and humbly, accepting the government that exists without trying to influence it.

that's just the witness of scripture.
interpret or ignore it however you wish.

Maybe He chose to come to earth for the recent election as the HS within believer and inspired millions of Christians to vote for the policies they think best reflect NT values.

 

[posthuman]

He never sent an email, text, phone call or made an online post so best we all stop communicating electronically as well. Afterall, if He wanted to do any of those things, He would have come at a different time but He purposefully chose to avoid those options.

i have not said someone should never vote.

the thread topic is whether Christ would vote. clearly the answer is no.

therefore it is also clear that voting is not a Christian duty. it may be a moral obligation in a purely secular, nationalistic sense - that point remains questionable - but in the sense of our faith, it is not. there is zero scriptural justification to call it such: all the examined scripture indicates the opposite.

i regret that you are upset with this and that you single me out as the object of your displeasure, because i have told the truth about this matter.

 

[sawdust]

the thread topic is whether Christ would vote. clearly the answer is no.

Clearly because there was no voting in His day, but what would He do today in the countries that do have voting? The reality is you have no idea but you're quite happy to state categorically He wouldn't based on an argument from silence. He didn't do it when it wasn't available so he won't do it now when it is, is all you have. There were a lot of things He didn't do in the 1st century but we wouldn't say don't do that now because Christ didn't do it.

It's an argument from silence which is no argument at all.

i regret that you are upset with this and that you single me out as the object of your displeasure, because i have told the truth about this matter.

Strewth! What a laughable statement. You're not that important that your words have any affect on me or are you necessarily right that Jesus would not vote today just because He didn't vote when there wasn't any such thing.

You're welcome to your opinion as I am mine because that is all they are, opinions.

He didn't post in a forum either so maybe you shouldn't be doing that.

 

[posthuman]

Maybe He chose to come to earth for the recent election as the HS within believer and inspired millions of Christians to vote for the policies they think best reflect NT values.

you mean being humble, hating lies, and remembering the poor and the foreigner?

no, apparently He didn't .

 

[posthuman]

It's an argument from silence which is no argument at all.

maybe you haven't been paying attention, so i'll repeat what both i and others have already put,

if you look at the first two kings of Israel, it is very clear that when the people chose a king for themselves by voting, it was blasphemy and adultry, forsaking God. Saul.
but the King through whom Christ chose to be born in lineage, whose heart was after God's own heart, was explicity chosen contrary to the 'vote' of man and 100% by the will and power of God.

you are entirely mistaken to say i have been arguing from silence. the witness of scripture is that the will of man ((voting)) is evil, and the will of God is good. even Matthias who was among two chosen by vote and then for whom lots were cast ((an explicit appeal to God to decide instead of human votes)), was completely forgotten by history, and Paul, who was chosen by God against the popular opinion ((vote)) of man, was given great honor by God as apostle.

the witness of scripture is 100% corroborative that Christ would not vote. Christ would appoint, and He did. He does not pool His 'opinion' with men, as though it had equal weight, and let the majority of wicked humankind decide what shall be called true or have preeminence

 

[sawdust]

maybe you haven't been paying attention, so i'll repeat what both i and others have already put,

if you look at the first two kings of Israel, it is very clear that when the people chose a king for themselves by voting, it was blasphemy and adultry, forsaking God. Saul.
but the King through whom Christ chose to be born in lineage, whose heart was after God's own heart, was explicity chosen contrary to the 'vote' of man and 100% by the will and power of God.

you are entirely mistaken to say i have been arguing from silence. the witness of scripture is that the will of man ((voting)) is evil, and the will of God is good. even Matthias who was among two chosen by vote and then for whom lots were cast ((an explicit appeal to God to decide instead of human votes)), was completely forgotten by history, and Paul, who was chosen by God against the popular opinion ((vote)) of man, was given great honor by God as apostle.

the witness of scripture is 100% corroborative that Christ would not vote. Christ would appoint, and He did. He does not pool His 'opinion' with men, as though it had equal weight, and let the majority of wicked humankind decide what shall be called true or have preeminence

You are comparing apples with oranges. Maybe you have not been paying attention because I have repeated this many times.

USA (or any other nation running on democratic principles) is not a nation created and chosen by God like Israel nor is it an organism created and chosen by God like the Church. Israel was meant to be a theocracy, unlike the surrounding nations and we don't vote for our leaders in the Church, they are appointed by God.

When the nations of the world become Christ's nations on His return (Rev.11:15), we will not need to vote but until then, the nations are exercising their God given power in order to reveal the type of nation they are, for judgement awaits.

 

[posthuman]

You are comparing apples with oranges. Maybe you have not been paying attention because I have repeated this many times.

USA (or any other nation running on democratic principles) is not a nation created and chosen by God like Israel nor is it an organism created and chosen by God like the Church. Israel was meant to be a theocracy, unlike the surrounding nations and we don't vote for our leaders in the Church, they are appointed by God.

When the nations of the world become Christ's nations on His return (Rev.11:15), we will not need to vote but until then, the nations are exercising their God given power in order to reveal the type of nation they are, for judgement awaits.

because you live in a pagan nation you should act like a pagan?

that's your argument that Christ God the King of kings would vote, instead of appoint?

even while you admit there is no such thing as voting in His Kingdom?


mmmmmmmmmmk

 

[posthuman]

we don't vote for our leaders in the Church, they are appointed by God.

but most churches vote for pastors ((after putting out job postings on monster.com)) and elders.

are they doing it wrong?

 

[posthuman]

the nations are exercising their God given power in order to reveal the type of nation they are

which is why the US has elected the liar.
because we are an evil, vain country that despises the poor and the sojourner and gives gifts to the rich.

 

[tourist]

Sure mate, it was the right time simply because He didn't want to vote.

No good candidates to choose from.

 

[Cameron143]

which is why the US has elected the liar.
because we are an evil, vain country that despises the poor and the sojourner and gives gifts to the rich.

Do you really believe Trump is the only liar?
Do you really equate enforcing laws against illegal immigration and despising the sojourner?
Do you really believe the left which spent 2 billion dollars on the last election doesn't serve the interests of these wealthy donors?

 

[sawdust]

because you live in a pagan nation you should act like a pagan?

that's your argument that Christ God the King of kings would vote, instead of appoint?

even while you admit there is no such thing as voting in His Kingdom?


mmmmmmmmmmk

I'm not Christ with all authority. You asked in your OP "should we follow His example?" Does this mean you are going to usurp His rule and do the appointing yourself?

How Christ operates and how we operate under Him, are two different issues. We cannot follow, to the letter, everything Christ did or not do.

Personally I think you are using Christ as a scapegoat way too far.

You are welcome to your opinion as to how we should act as Christians when it comes to voting. I will always disagree with you.

G'day