A Closer Look at God’s Election
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No, they hold fast to their own pride. I'm saying they hold fast to thinking they have ANY control or power over their situations at all. You warped that right out of it's context. I'm saying they have to hold on to that arrogance to think they're in control enough to save themselves or to walk away from God.
After reading your next reply I see you believe you deserve some glory and credit for salvation. I'm sorry, but you're completely wrong about this.
Wrong 10000% WRONG. If you think "YOU" hold anything, that your power plays ANY part at all. You're just mistaken about this and should repent for claiming what belongs to Him alone. Period.
After reading your next reply I see you believe you deserve some glory and credit for salvation. I'm sorry, but you're completely wrong about this.
Wrong 10000% WRONG. If you think "YOU" hold anything, that your power plays ANY part at all. You're just mistaken about this and should repent for claiming what belongs to Him alone. Period.
I've skimmed over this thread but paid more attention to this page, #3. Do you really really think that God is a puppeteer of some sort? I'm not trying to be rude here, but I am genuinely asking just how you see God being 'in control' of everything. Words have meaning and everything means everything. Does He then control our thoughts and cause us to decide if we want toast or cereal for breakfast? Does He control us if we sin? Does He direct a car to hit a child in the street or cause a pastor to commit adultery?
I suppose you might come back with 'of course not' because I have had this type of conversation with people who say God is in control of everything before, but like I said, everything is everything.
Now if you can respond with sincere dialogue on the matter and refrain from comments such as 'You have a huge problem being subservient to God don't you?', then I would really to understand just what you mean with your comment that God is in control of everything.
I suppose you might come back with 'of course not' because I have had this type of conversation with people who say God is in control of everything before, but like I said, everything is everything.
Now if you can respond with sincere dialogue on the matter and refrain from comments such as 'You have a huge problem being subservient to God don't you?', then I would really to understand just what you mean with your comment that God is in control of everything.
Well I agree with you here. I don't deny any of that. What I do deny is that you, your will, your goodness, your obedience, or ANYTHING AT ALL that comes from "you", plays any part or gets any glory or credit, in any way, for your salvation. I'm NOT saying you never did anything good, I'm not suggesting at all that after we are saved the Spirit doesn't empower and leads us to do good things. What I am saying is that God drew you to Himself, you didn't "decide" that in your fallen state. God grants you repentance, so when you in your head feel like you "choose" to turn from your way and towards His, that was by His power not yours, He gets the glory, not you. Now when He resurrects your dead from birth spirit to life and reconnects it to His, that was not by your will or choice, it was by His grace by His power. Did "you" have faith? Yes. You had the exact measure of faith that He assigned you. See my point here. When Paul says salvation is of God least any man boast, that doesn't mean "we shouldn't boast", it means we have no boast, it is ALL Gods and we have nothing at all to boast about.
I usually say this, but haven't since we've been talking, but I don't believe in the osas strawman that says once I get my salvation ticket punched I can sin as much as I want. I condemn that as much as Paul did in Romans. I agree with what you are saying about the Spirit leading us to do good things, but that is also why Jesus gets ALL credit for anything I do good. I understand why you think the way you do, I really do. But you have to see that the tiny bit of credit you want for "hanging in there", "doing the right thing", and "making the right choice". That credit doesn't belong to you and you have to understand it doesn't save you either. The reason people think they can choose to walk away from God and lose salvation is because they falsely thing that their choice to "ask Jesus into their hearts" was what saved them. Neither is true.
I usually say this, but haven't since we've been talking, but I don't believe in the osas strawman that says once I get my salvation ticket punched I can sin as much as I want. I condemn that as much as Paul did in Romans. I agree with what you are saying about the Spirit leading us to do good things, but that is also why Jesus gets ALL credit for anything I do good. I understand why you think the way you do, I really do. But you have to see that the tiny bit of credit you want for "hanging in there", "doing the right thing", and "making the right choice". That credit doesn't belong to you and you have to understand it doesn't save you either. The reason people think they can choose to walk away from God and lose salvation is because they falsely thing that their choice to "ask Jesus into their hearts" was what saved them. Neither is true.
