Understanding God’s election

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ocean

ocean

Active member
#761
Oct 15, 2024
151
66
28
#761
rogerg said:
Just in case you changed your mind and are holding your breath:

My post 666 (for brevity, only the germane portion included)

"If your belief were to be correct that salvation depends solely upon an individual's actions and choices "

Your post 625, which seems to fit your requirement of "show me where I said anything close" category that you requested.

"I am not sure how you are applying the word 'power' to God's grace here. I do believe we have a choice and I do believe God actually does bring us to the place where we do have that choice (accept Christ) unlike Calvinists who believe we have no choice. I think you may be conflating the word power with the understanding of grace, taking into consideration your highlighting of the word power. Indeed, power is not unmerited favor but it is not grace either. I don't think we will agree on that."

If you believe there is another way besides by a person's choice, let's hear it. Otherwise, the question to you remains:
how do those, who for reasons beyond their control are unable to choose, become saved? And if they are not saved,
then explain what happens to them?
Click to expand...
It would be helpful if you would actually quote a person you are addressing as the above post is confusing. Perhaps you do that on purpose? I don't know. I believe Jesus is the Way. Calvin will never have it his way. What do you want? You don't agree with Genez but are not above using what you assume to be proof of who knows what as part of your Calvinist poofy display of arrogance.
 
M

MeowFlower

Well-known member
#762
Aug 25, 2024
883
406
63
youtube.com
#762
ocean said:
Typical attempt to enter into a debate with not one, but two, individuals who refuse to address actual posts. As I stated, I said nothing even close to what Rogerg is suggesting.

Why don't you clean up your act and not address other believers as heretical or believing in some heresy. There is only one way to be saved and that is through Jesus Himself. Calvinism is not the way. Jesus is the Way.
Click to expand...
Be careful. Don't imply I or anyone who doesn't agree with you are not of Christ. And especially don't you ever claim my god is Satan.


Clear?
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#763
Oct 12, 2017
3,439
535
113
#763
Rufus said:
Well, tell me, sir: Who existed first: Esau and Jacob or the nations they eventually became? The text in Romans 9 doesn't say that God loved Israel and hated Edom. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
You still do not understand what it is that God saves....

Hint.... The part of us responsible for our depravity?
Was crucified with Christ.

God sees it as dead!
 
R

Rufus

Well-known member
#764
Feb 17, 2024
3,053
413
83
#764
ocean said:
Typical attempt to enter into a debate with not one, but two, individuals who refuse to address actual posts. As I stated, I said nothing even close to what Rogerg is suggesting.

Why don't you clean up your act and not address other believers as heretical or believing in some heresy. There is only one way to be saved and that is through Jesus Himself. Calvinism is not the way. Jesus is the Way.
Click to expand...
For your info, Calvinism also teaches that "Jesus is the Way"? So, was there some point you were trying to make in your above post?

However, there are many versions of the gospel and any version that rejects the Five Doctrines of Grace is definitely at minimum a false gospel.
 
R

Rufus

Well-known member
#765
Feb 17, 2024
3,053
413
83
#765
Genez said:
You still do not understand what it is that God saves....

Hint.... The part of us responsible for our depravity?
Was crucified with Christ.

God sees it as dead!
Click to expand...
I thought God was in the soul saving business? No?

The "part" of us responsible for our depravity is our fallen human nature and a totally depraved heart.
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#766
Oct 12, 2017
3,439
535
113
#766
Rufus said:
I thought God was in the soul saving business? No?

The "part" of us responsible for our depravity is our fallen human nature and a totally depraved heart.
Click to expand...
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword,
it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit . Hebrews 4:12

Why was the body not mentioned?
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#767
Oct 12, 2017
3,439
535
113
#767
Rufus said:
I thought God was in the soul saving business? No?

The "part" of us responsible for our depravity is our fallen human nature and a totally depraved heart.
Click to expand...

Heart is where you concluded in your soul what you believe as reality.
After all... It was Satan that "thought in his heart that he would make himself as the Most High."

Now?

Your soul - sans body - will be able to think free of the flesh.
In other words?
You soul is not innately fallen when the influence of the flesh has been bypassed.
In the mean while, without Grace? Your soul is a slave to what is fallen.

Just like you might be an excellent driver?
Getting drunk would turn your jaunt down the road into a disaster.

Yet, being sober, or drunk?

Its your same soul driving that car.
Meaning?
What controls over your soul? Determines depravity, or righteousness.

The fallen nature of man is like being a perpetual drunk that will not allow your soul to think and react correctly.

Using 1 John 1:9, and remaining filled with the filling of the Spirit, is God's answer to sobering you up in a world
of drunks driving down the road of life.
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#769
Jul 13, 2021
3,887
648
113
#769
ocean said:
It would be helpful if you would actually quote a person you are addressing as the above post is confusing. Perhaps you do that on purpose? I don't know. I believe Jesus is the Way. Calvin will never have it his way. What do you want? You don't agree with Genez but are not above using what you assume to be proof of who knows what as part of your Calvinist poofy display of arrogance.
Click to expand...
Huh?
 
ocean

ocean

Active member
#770
Oct 15, 2024
151
66
28
#770
Rufus said:
For your info, Calvinism also teaches that "Jesus is the Way"? So, was there some point you were trying to make in your above post?

However, there are many versions of the gospel and any version that rejects the Five Doctrines of Grace is definitely at minimum a false gospel.
Click to expand...
Take a deep breath. You are sounding desperate.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#771
Nov 20, 2018
23,791
8,616
113
#771
Genez said:
Heart is where you concluded in your soul what you believe as reality.
After all... It was Satan that "thought in his heart that he would make himself as the Most High."

Now?

Your soul - sans body - will be able to think free of the flesh.
In other words?
You soul is not innately fallen when the influence of the flesh has been bypassed.
In the mean while, without Grace? Your soul is a slave to what is fallen.

Just like you might be an excellent driver?
Getting drunk would turn your jaunt down the road into a disaster.

Yet, being sober, or drunk?

Its your same soul driving that car.
Meaning?
What controls over your soul? Determines depravity, or righteousness.

The fallen nature of man is like being a perpetual drunk that will not allow your soul to think and react correctly.

Using 1 John 1:9, and remaining filled with the filling of the Spirit, is God's answer to sobering you up in a world
of drunks driving down the road of life.
Click to expand...
There it is again.....
Then comes the consequences, so noted.

Psa 53:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
 
R

Rufus

Well-known member
#772
Feb 17, 2024
3,053
413
83
#772
ocean said:
Take a deep breath. You are sounding desperate.
Click to expand...
You're the one grasping at straws when you say that Calvinism doesn't believe that Jesus is the Way. Do you have something to back up that straw man statement?
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#773
Nov 20, 2018
23,791
8,616
113
#773
Genez said:
Using 1 John 1:9, and remaining filled with the filling of the Spirit, is God's answer to sobering you up in a world of drunks driving down the road of life.
Click to expand...
Works for me. Definitely.

In fact I notice that when I become distracted from the Word, I start feeling a little tipsy.
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#774
Oct 12, 2017
3,439
535
113
#774
Rufus said:
You're the one grasping at straws when you say that Calvinism doesn't believe that Jesus is the Way. Do you have something to back up that straw man statement?
Click to expand...
Calvinism as many today believe it to be, believes that Jesus is the FORCED way.
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#775
Oct 12, 2017
3,439
535
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#775
cv5 said:
Works for me. Definitely.

In fact I notice that when I become distracted from the Word, I start feeling a little tipsy.
Click to expand...
Most likely tipsy from low "blood of Christ" sugar...

Matthew 4:4

Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone,
but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

.
 
R

Rufus

Well-known member
#777
Feb 17, 2024
3,053
413
83
#777
Genez said:
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword,
it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit . Hebrews 4:12

Why was the body not mentioned?
Click to expand...
Here's a wild and crazy idea: Because all sin proceeds from within us and not from without us (e.g. the skin that hangs off our bones).
The focus of scripture is clearly on the inner man (sin nature and the heart), not the outer, visible parts of man. There's nothing sinful about our skin. BUT...the INSIDE of us is a completely different story. Jesus dwells in believers' hearts not in or under their skin (Eph 3:16).
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#778
Nov 20, 2018
23,791
8,616
113
#778
Genez said:
Most likely tipsy from low "blood of Christ" sugar...

Matthew 4:4

Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone,
but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

.
Click to expand...
Amen.
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#779
Oct 12, 2017
3,439
535
113
#779
Rufus said:
Here's a wild and crazy idea: Because all sin proceeds from within us and not from without us (e.g. the skin that hangs off our bones).
The focus of scripture is clearly on the inner man (sin nature and the heart), not the outer, visible parts of man. There's nothing sinful about our skin. BUT...the INSIDE of us is a completely different story. Jesus dwells in believers' hearts not in or under their skin (Eph 3:16).
Click to expand...
Its not just skin... it is also the hormones and electrical brain impulses that were short circuited by the fall of Adam, causing us not able to will to do what is right, for our bodies never can reveal to us what would be right.
 
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