If we seek scripture seeing God is in control, not man...it falls into place of necessity..
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Understanding God’s election
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This is too good not to repeat after the cloud of dust settled down.
It says that we (the Church) were chosen "IN HIM."
Just as the body of Eve was in Adam's body?
So are we now at present hidden in His body which is seated in heavenly places!
Just as Eve's body was bone of ADAM'S BONE, and flesh of Adam's sinless flesh?...
So shall we be resurrected BONE OF HIS BONE...and, GLORIOUS FLESH OF HIS GLORIOUS FLESH.
For that reason, only the Church was chosen IN HIM.
Ephesians 1:4 does not mean God choose to save us.
For, He knew we would choose to believe.
God simply made a choice.
For out of all souls He knew would believe?
He chose us specifically, IN HIM, to become THE BRIDE OF CHRIST!
God chose a Bride for His Son.
That is why we have been predestined to be born during the Church age!
That is why we are called the body of Christ.
To be revealed PERFECTLY so when resurrected!
We were specifically Chosen in Him!
To become His Bride at the Resurrection!
No other dispensation of believers is said to be His Bride!
For he chose us in him before the creation of the world
to be holy and blameless in his sight.
Ephesians 1:4
to be holy and blameless in his sight.
Ephesians 1:4
It says that we (the Church) were chosen "IN HIM."
Just as the body of Eve was in Adam's body?
So are we now at present hidden in His body which is seated in heavenly places!
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him
in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 2:6
in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 2:6
Just as Eve's body was bone of ADAM'S BONE, and flesh of Adam's sinless flesh?...
So shall we be resurrected BONE OF HIS BONE...and, GLORIOUS FLESH OF HIS GLORIOUS FLESH.
For that reason, only the Church was chosen IN HIM.
Ephesians 1:4 does not mean God choose to save us.
For, He knew we would choose to believe.
God simply made a choice.
For out of all souls He knew would believe?
He chose us specifically, IN HIM, to become THE BRIDE OF CHRIST!
God chose a Bride for His Son.
That is why we have been predestined to be born during the Church age!
That is why we are called the body of Christ.
To be revealed PERFECTLY so when resurrected!
But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from
there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to
bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly
bodies so that they will be like his glorious body. "
Philippians 3:20-21
there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to
bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly
bodies so that they will be like his glorious body. "
Philippians 3:20-21
We were specifically Chosen in Him!
To become His Bride at the Resurrection!
No other dispensation of believers is said to be His Bride!
Then the Lord God made a Bride from the same everlasting substance
he had taken from Jesus,
and he displayed her in the presence the Lord.
The Lord said,
“This is now everlasting bone of my everlasting bones
and glorious flesh of my glorious flesh;
she shall be called ‘my Bride, the Bride of Christ,’
for she was made from what my Body is forever being.”
Amen!
he had taken from Jesus,
and he displayed her in the presence the Lord.
The Lord said,
“This is now everlasting bone of my everlasting bones
and glorious flesh of my glorious flesh;
she shall be called ‘my Bride, the Bride of Christ,’
for she was made from what my Body is forever being.”
Amen!
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Rom 9: 14-16 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For He saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then, it is NOT of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.
John 1: 13 Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Eph 1: 4 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him, in love.
Eph 1: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
John 17: 1,2,7 These words spoke Jesus, and lifted up His eyes to heaven and said, Father the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee. As thou hast given Him power over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as thou HAST GIVEN HIM. Now they have known, that all things, whatever thou hast given me, ARE OF( by or from) THEE.
I have plenty more if you would want. An outsider would see that a person was forced against his will to be saved. A saved person would see that he is undeserving and extremely thankful for God choosing him.
John 1: 13 Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Eph 1: 4 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him, in love.
Eph 1: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
John 17: 1,2,7 These words spoke Jesus, and lifted up His eyes to heaven and said, Father the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee. As thou hast given Him power over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as thou HAST GIVEN HIM. Now they have known, that all things, whatever thou hast given me, ARE OF( by or from) THEE.
I have plenty more if you would want. An outsider would see that a person was forced against his will to be saved. A saved person would see that he is undeserving and extremely thankful for God choosing him.
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No, had God had intended the church be in view, He would not have used "us", "we", and "children"- being the " saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:" (V1) - those who were predestinated unto adoption individually by Jesus Christ unto Himself; that is, v1 identifies who the "us", "we" and "children" are.
[Eph 1:4-5, 7, 11,19 KJV]
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, ...
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; ...
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
19 And what [is] the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
No, you have it reversed - those who believe do so as a result of having been predestinated unto salvation - chosen, by which, they believe. True belief is given "according to the working of his mighty power" (V19); it is not of man's doing.
As I mentioned in a prior post, God chose the "who", not the "what" - He makes the "what" to follow the "who".
[Eph 1:4-5, 7, 11,19 KJV]
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, ...
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; ...
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
19 And what [is] the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
No, you have it reversed - those who believe do so as a result of having been predestinated unto salvation - chosen, by which, they believe. True belief is given "according to the working of his mighty power" (V19); it is not of man's doing.
As I mentioned in a prior post, God chose the "who", not the "what" - He makes the "what" to follow the "who".
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And an astute Bible student would recognize that there is zero Calvinism in those passages.
For example Romans 9. The most misapprehended chapter in all the Bible. By the Calvinites that is.
That entire chapter pertains to Israel and nations and the gentile Church, NOT INDIVIDUAL SALVATION.
And speaks NOTHING to being chosen before being born.
Gen 25:23
And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:21
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
[Jer 18:1 KJV]
The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
[Jer 18:2 KJV]
Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.
[Jer 18:3 KJV]
Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
[Jer 18:4 KJV]
And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make [it].
[Jer 18:5 KJV]
Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
[Jer 18:6 KJV]
O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay [is] in the potter's hand, so [are] ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
[Jer 18:7 KJV]
[At what] instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy [it];
[Jer 18:8 KJV]
If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
[Jer 18:9 KJV]
And [at what] instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant [it];
For example Romans 9. The most misapprehended chapter in all the Bible. By the Calvinites that is.
That entire chapter pertains to Israel and nations and the gentile Church, NOT INDIVIDUAL SALVATION.
And speaks NOTHING to being chosen before being born.
Gen 25:23
And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:21
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
[Jer 18:1 KJV]
The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
[Jer 18:2 KJV]
Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.
[Jer 18:3 KJV]
Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
[Jer 18:4 KJV]
And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make [it].
[Jer 18:5 KJV]
Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
[Jer 18:6 KJV]
O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay [is] in the potter's hand, so [are] ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
[Jer 18:7 KJV]
[At what] instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy [it];
[Jer 18:8 KJV]
If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
[Jer 18:9 KJV]
And [at what] instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant [it];
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But those two "nations" (Jacob & Esau) were individuals that God chose BEFORE they became nations. And God's rejection of Esau in eternity (before HE did anything good or bad) sealed the fate of the nation, as Edom was as much an ungodly nation as its father was.
Also, Peter exhorted his Jewish brethren that they should make their calling and election sure (2Pet 1:10).
Also, Peter exhorted his Jewish brethren that they should make their calling and election sure (2Pet 1:10).
Maybe it is actually Quadrupley incapable or even more, maybe exponentially incapable... isn't there a long list list floating about and growing.
God forbid anybody sneak in who was not pre-selected among the rubble of humanity.
I mean if something is so unbelievable to man, God could have just done it all in secret, I mean the TULIP adherents do not have to even believe the Gospel God gives them the belief.
So we have the "Architect of the Universe"
(as Calvin sometimes called Him) creating a nice little group of initiates bequeathed the illuminating belief to become members. Hmmm.
God forbid anybody sneak in who was not pre-selected among the rubble of humanity.
I mean if something is so unbelievable to man, God could have just done it all in secret, I mean the TULIP adherents do not have to even believe the Gospel God gives them the belief.
So we have the "Architect of the Universe"
(as Calvin sometimes called Him) creating a nice little group of initiates bequeathed the illuminating belief to become members. Hmmm.
Maybe it is actually Quadrupley incapable or even more, maybe exponentially incapable... isn't there a long list list floating about and growing.
God forbid anybody sneak in who was not pre-selected among the rubble of humanity.
I mean if something is so unbelievable to man, God could have just done it all in secret, I mean the TULIP adherents do not have to even believe the Gospel God gives them the belief.
So we have the "Architect of the Universe" (as Calvin sometimes called Him) creating a nice little group of initiates bequeathed the illuminating belief to become members. Hmmm.
God forbid anybody sneak in who was not pre-selected among the rubble of humanity.
I mean if something is so unbelievable to man, God could have just done it all in secret, I mean the TULIP adherents do not have to even believe the Gospel God gives them the belief.
So we have the "Architect of the Universe"
(as Calvin sometimes called Him) creating a nice little group of initiates bequeathed the illuminating belief to become members. Hmmm.
You are just kind of gritting your teeth, waiting until the bitter end when you finally get to see your lottery ticket.
Consequently, you cannot ever proclaim to anyone that they CAN be saved, only that they SHOULD be saved,
with ZERO assurance of salvation, rather it is all a cosmic crap shoot.
And the thing is, Calvinites do NOT stand on street corners preaching their cynical fatalistic nonsense.
Its far too ridiculous and embarrassing.
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The more one learns about this doctrine which denies the actual power and truth of the Gospel message the more cultic it is revealed to be.
What I really am entertained by is the denial of being "Calvinistic" in their soteriology.
Agree though, there are many that are hoping they are chosen, God will regenerate them, give them belief, they wait and wait, those are the ones that are damaged by this anti-bibilcal doctrine, sad the testimonies one hears on You Tube.
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Your interaction with @GaryA is irrelevant.
I'm talking about your behavior toward @Cameron143 .
That's all I have to say about this.
Be blessed.
I'm talking about your behavior toward @Cameron143 .
That's all I have to say about this.
Be blessed.
Maybe it is actually Quadrupley incapable or even more, maybe exponentially incapable... isn't there a long list list floating about and growing.
God forbid anybody sneak in who was not pre-selected among the rubble of humanity.
I mean if something is so unbelievable to man, God could have just done it all in secret, I mean the TULIP adherents do not have to even believe the Gospel God gives them the belief.
So we have the "Architect of the Universe" (as Calvin sometimes called Him) creating a nice little group of initiates bequeathed the illuminating belief to become members. Hmmm.
God forbid anybody sneak in who was not pre-selected among the rubble of humanity.
I mean if something is so unbelievable to man, God could have just done it all in secret, I mean the TULIP adherents do not have to even believe the Gospel God gives them the belief.
So we have the "Architect of the Universe"
(as Calvin sometimes called Him) creating a nice little group of initiates bequeathed the illuminating belief to become members. Hmmm.
And, no, no one can "sneak in" because those in Adam want nothing to do with God. How many antediluvians ended up seeking God with all of Noah's preaching? Let's go with a very, very modest number of people who existed at that time. Let's say only a 1,000,000 people inhabited the earth. And God saved only 8. That means that only .000008 of the human population was saved. It seems no one had any heart for God to want to "sneak in" to the ark to be saved.
Also, Adam didn't sneak back in to the Garden, did he, after he was unceremoniously ejected?
Rom 9: 14-16 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For He saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then, it is NOT of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.
The Greek is the key to understanding that passage meaning.
Just so happens I heard a lesson by my pastor explaining what and why that passage in the Greek was saying.
It is an example of the showcasing of the omniscience of God in determining whom God saves.
God in His omniscience already knows who will believe.
Therefore, in essence, God was saying.
Those you see me giving mercy to?
I have already given mercy to them in the past in my omniscience.
So, don't beg me to save someone.
For I am perfectly saving those who should be saved.
It does not depend upon your desire to see someone saved.
For you are not omniscient, and can not know what kind of mistake it would have been to save that person, just to please you.
For righteousness to stand, I will have mercy upon those whom I have perfectly known in the past, and had mercy upon them in the past (in his omniscience).
What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.
Every evil son would be saved if it depended upon his mother's desire for God to save him!
God must save Righteously only those whom God knows will be righteous for all eternity.
If it depended upon man's desire for God to save someone? Eternity would become a mess.
“I will have mercy (revealed to you in time) on whom I have mercy (which was awaiting to be revealed),
and I will have compassion (revealed to you in time) on whom I have compassion (which was awaiting to be revealed).”
grace and peace ............