The Gospels and the Mystery
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Even though you opted not to support your drive-by post with evidence, I will nevertheless attempt to infer its meaning. While I won't engage with you in an extended dialogue on this topic at this time (as I believe it would be fruitless given your current lack of spiritual understanding), I will share these verses since they are quite straightforward, easy to understand, and go directly to your intent as I assume it to be. When you can understand and accept what they say, feel free to respond and we can discuss. Until then, no need to reply.
As I didn't feel like typing essentially the same post twice, it is also applicable to @Musicmaster.
[Eph 1:4-5 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
[Eph 1:11 KJV]
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
As I didn't feel like typing essentially the same post twice, it is also applicable to @Musicmaster.
[Eph 1:4-5 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
[Eph 1:11 KJV]
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Not another RCC Calvin debate. You miss the entire context of the passage. The context is not "us" but what was chosen to be in him from the foundation of the world. The word "according" takes the context back to verse 3 which you left out. And yes, in Christ we have obtained an inheritance. Keep reading and the word explains how someone gets into Christ. Not one person was placed in Christ before the foundation of the world.
Completely incorrect. It is the "us" that he is addressing, not the what - verse 3 included - the individual saints, the faithful. Someone can only "gets into Christ" by being a beneficiary. An inheritance can only be an inheritance as being that which is given by a testator to his chosen, included, individual, beneficiaries, otherwise, it isn't an inheritance: it cannot be not apprehended nor taken by someone to in order to make themselves a beneficiary. Like I said, come back when you can understand those verses. I'm done.
[Eph 1:3-4 KJV]
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
[1Pe 1:4 KJV]
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
[Heb 9:15 KJV]
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
[Eph 1:3-4 KJV]
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
[1Pe 1:4 KJV]
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
[Heb 9:15 KJV]
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
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I am a little late with this, but I would begin sharing my thoughts by noting that Paul worked closely with Mark and Luke, who wrote two of the NT gospels, so his epistles assumed the teachings in those scriptures as well as Messianic prophecies in the OT.
Humanly speaking, we might not even have knowledge of Jesus in the gospels if Paul had not served God by spreading it beyond the borders of Judea, so we must assume God blessed Paul's ministry.
Even though Paul said the mystery was revealed to him (perhaps during the Damascus Road episode?), he does mention that it is revealed to other apostles (EPH 3:5). Paul persecuted Stephen before he converted to believing Stephen's "blasphemy against Moses".
(ACTS 6:11, 7:51-58)
Humanly speaking, we might not even have knowledge of Jesus in the gospels if Paul had not served God by spreading it beyond the borders of Judea, so we must assume God blessed Paul's ministry.
Even though Paul said the mystery was revealed to him (perhaps during the Damascus Road episode?), he does mention that it is revealed to other apostles (EPH 3:5). Paul persecuted Stephen before he converted to believing Stephen's "blasphemy against Moses".
(ACTS 6:11, 7:51-58)
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Are you saying that Paul also taught the requirement for water baptism for remission of sins, as was taught in the four gospels?
Yes indeed. Because Israel failed miserably because of her refusal to accept Christ Jesus as Messiah, the world of Gentiles had no other avenue for salvation, so the Lord made an alternative path to salvation that did not involve Law and works administered by way of rites and effort through the flesh. Through Paul's Gospel, there is no longer need for water baptism for remission of sins.
Acts 14:14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
It's interesting that the apostles appear to not have gone out into all the world as commanded given that we see them in Jerusalem when Paul returned to Jerusalem in Acts 15, which is at about the time of Paul's second missionary journey. Either that, or they had some sort of reunion in Jerusalem at that time. There are all kinds of legends of them dispersed all across the area, with silly artifacts supposedly on display throughout the region and at the Vatican that allegedly belonged to some of the apostles. Merchandising isn't anything new with mere religion...
MM
Yes indeed. Because Israel failed miserably because of her refusal to accept Christ Jesus as Messiah, the world of Gentiles had no other avenue for salvation, so the Lord made an alternative path to salvation that did not involve Law and works administered by way of rites and effort through the flesh. Through Paul's Gospel, there is no longer need for water baptism for remission of sins.
Acts 14:14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
It's interesting that the apostles appear to not have gone out into all the world as commanded given that we see them in Jerusalem when Paul returned to Jerusalem in Acts 15, which is at about the time of Paul's second missionary journey. Either that, or they had some sort of reunion in Jerusalem at that time. There are all kinds of legends of them dispersed all across the area, with silly artifacts supposedly on display throughout the region and at the Vatican that allegedly belonged to some of the apostles. Merchandising isn't anything new with mere religion...
MM
You are welcome. Also, in case you are unaware, at the bottom of each page, right under the last post,
there is a link that says, Show ignored content. If you can see that, it means some posts are hidden to
you because of the ignore feature, and if you hover over that link with your cursor, it will show who the
people are posting that you cannot see, although if you want to see the actual posts, you must click
that link, and then they will all be shown to you.
there is a link that says, Show ignored content. If you can see that, it means some posts are hidden to
you because of the ignore feature, and if you hover over that link with your cursor, it will show who the
people are posting that you cannot see, although if you want to see the actual posts, you must click
that link, and then they will all be shown to you.
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Thanks for the heads-up. I had seen that feature before, but forgot about it. I generally place troublemakers on ignore who resort to ad hominem retorts and are mostly just antagonists moreso than those seeking to have a discussion. Other threads where they stomp around causing trouble are how I measure them for what they are instead of just my own threads. The lack of graciousness is rampant among some.
Blessings to you and yours.
MM
Blessings to you and yours.
MM
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There is within our flesh these deep-seated desires to try and do works on our part, which is a good thing. The problem that rises to the surface of the cesspool of our own righteousness is the belief that we can somehow make ourselves worthy of God's grace (UNmerited favor), or that we can "activate" God's favor toward us through good works.
What seems to be missing in that warped belief system is the understanding that salvation through faith alone is what brings one into the saving grace of the Lord in that instant of faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ Jesus, with good works being the outflow from a salvation already bestowed through faith alone. The fixation upon the "necessity" for good works is a moot argument, and tends to drive more and more people into the side of works-based salvation, which is a doctrine of demons. Under the Gospel of Grace, salvation is instantaneous without the need to earn it or to supplement it with good works to solidify that saving point at some future time.
Salvation as a future thing is a defining feature of the Kingdom Gospel since they must endure unto the end of their lives to be saved. That is not a defining feature of the Gospel of Grace. Some may ask , "Why would the Lord do that to them from before the cross and not to us all the way to this very day? That doesn't seem fair."
Well, that's questioning God's Sovereignty, which is evidenced in the precision of the language already revealed...meaning that this is just the way it is, and the lump of clay asking why the Lord has made all of mankind thus, it's just foolishness to question the Lord about His ways.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.
Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Works are works, be they good works or works of the Law, works are works. The Law commanded good works, both in service unto the Lord and toward each other. Those who do not know the Law will argue against this, which is to be expected. Having been raised in the Law as an Israelite, one becomes well acquainted with the Law to a far greater degree than all the arm chair experts out there who think much too highly of themselves than is worth considering, even in this fallen state of ours.
MM
What seems to be missing in that warped belief system is the understanding that salvation through faith alone is what brings one into the saving grace of the Lord in that instant of faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ Jesus, with good works being the outflow from a salvation already bestowed through faith alone. The fixation upon the "necessity" for good works is a moot argument, and tends to drive more and more people into the side of works-based salvation, which is a doctrine of demons. Under the Gospel of Grace, salvation is instantaneous without the need to earn it or to supplement it with good works to solidify that saving point at some future time.
Salvation as a future thing is a defining feature of the Kingdom Gospel since they must endure unto the end of their lives to be saved. That is not a defining feature of the Gospel of Grace. Some may ask , "Why would the Lord do that to them from before the cross and not to us all the way to this very day? That doesn't seem fair."
Well, that's questioning God's Sovereignty, which is evidenced in the precision of the language already revealed...meaning that this is just the way it is, and the lump of clay asking why the Lord has made all of mankind thus, it's just foolishness to question the Lord about His ways.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.
Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Works are works, be they good works or works of the Law, works are works. The Law commanded good works, both in service unto the Lord and toward each other. Those who do not know the Law will argue against this, which is to be expected. Having been raised in the Law as an Israelite, one becomes well acquainted with the Law to a far greater degree than all the arm chair experts out there who think much too highly of themselves than is worth considering, even in this fallen state of ours.
MM
Precisely.
This goes right back to the observation I had made earlier when I asked how one can be made any more worthy and less sinful by works than without good works. In other words, how will doing good works ever seal OUR salvation under Grace, as if those works magically make us less sinful? Works versus no works has nothing whatsoever to do with the amount of sin in any life.
Someone will inevitably point out that good works justifies one, which would be true for us if, and ONLY if we were under the Kingdom Gospel.
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Those who demand the Kingdom Gospel is still in effect for us today, they are ignoring the brazenly obvious language of the very words of Christ when He CLEARLY stated, "...endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Why this is so difficult for them to grasp is entirely beyond reason. Given that those who were under that Gospel will be saved IF they ENDURE UNTO THE END. Why that's so difficult to grasp is what escapes me, apart from them spiritualizing it, accusing is of taking it so "literally." Heck yeah! The Lord meant what He said, and allegorizing that to say something else is nothing but a corruption of His words!
Oh well, those who think that they will have something of which to boast before the Lord will find out the hard way just how wrong they are in this life, here and now.
MM
This goes right back to the observation I had made earlier when I asked how one can be made any more worthy and less sinful by works than without good works. In other words, how will doing good works ever seal OUR salvation under Grace, as if those works magically make us less sinful? Works versus no works has nothing whatsoever to do with the amount of sin in any life.
Someone will inevitably point out that good works justifies one, which would be true for us if, and ONLY if we were under the Kingdom Gospel.
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Those who demand the Kingdom Gospel is still in effect for us today, they are ignoring the brazenly obvious language of the very words of Christ when He CLEARLY stated, "...endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Why this is so difficult for them to grasp is entirely beyond reason. Given that those who were under that Gospel will be saved IF they ENDURE UNTO THE END. Why that's so difficult to grasp is what escapes me, apart from them spiritualizing it, accusing is of taking it so "literally." Heck yeah! The Lord meant what He said, and allegorizing that to say something else is nothing but a corruption of His words!
Oh well, those who think that they will have something of which to boast before the Lord will find out the hard way just how wrong they are in this life, here and now.
MM
Under the Gospel of Grace, we receive the "earnest" of Holy Spirit:
2 Corinthians 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
We've all heard of "earnest" money, and the biblical definition of that key word is the following, according to Thayer's Greek Lexicon:
"an earnest, i. e. money which in purchases is given as a pledge that the full amount will subsequently be paid [Suidas under the word ἀραβών], (cf. [obsolete English earlespenny; caution-money], German Kaufschilling, Haftpfennig): 2 Corinthians 1:22; 2 Corinthians 5:5"
Ephesians 1:13-14
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
So we have received an EARNEST of Holy Spirit until our redemption is complete and we are dwelling in the Heavenlies, not the new earth and not the new Jerusalem that will set down upon the new earth.
Nowhere in any of that is it even hinted that there is/are some work(s) we must do to receive the fullness of the inheritance. It is given in earnest to later be given in full right at the point of one's salvation. The Kingdom Gospel requires continued works and faith, persevering unto the end of one's life to receive at death the salvation of the soul and spirit. Under the Gospel of Grace, we are SEALED with Holy Spirit what was not and will not be active under the Kingdom Gospel, within which one is indeed saved as long as they persevere. There's a good reason for this that many never consider.
MM
2 Corinthians 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
We've all heard of "earnest" money, and the biblical definition of that key word is the following, according to Thayer's Greek Lexicon:
"an earnest, i. e. money which in purchases is given as a pledge that the full amount will subsequently be paid [Suidas under the word ἀραβών], (cf. [obsolete English earlespenny; caution-money], German Kaufschilling, Haftpfennig): 2 Corinthians 1:22; 2 Corinthians 5:5"
Ephesians 1:13-14
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
So we have received an EARNEST of Holy Spirit until our redemption is complete and we are dwelling in the Heavenlies, not the new earth and not the new Jerusalem that will set down upon the new earth.
Nowhere in any of that is it even hinted that there is/are some work(s) we must do to receive the fullness of the inheritance. It is given in earnest to later be given in full right at the point of one's salvation. The Kingdom Gospel requires continued works and faith, persevering unto the end of one's life to receive at death the salvation of the soul and spirit. Under the Gospel of Grace, we are SEALED with Holy Spirit what was not and will not be active under the Kingdom Gospel, within which one is indeed saved as long as they persevere. There's a good reason for this that many never consider.
MM