The Gospels and the Mystery
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The sign gifts, charismatics would agree thatbthey are still in effect. Cessationist say no, the sign gifts ceased with scripture as we now have the apostolic witness in scripture.
Either way, the argument you put forth doesn't hold. In fact none of the arguments you have put forth are tenable.
Again the warning is the same as i said above.
Apparently it is a dispensationalist who says hyper dispensationalism is satanic.
If anyone reading is interested to read more, here is the link to an easy to read article. It includes quite from a dispensationalist denouncing in the strongest terms hyper dispensationalism.
https://www.gotquestions.org/ultra-dispensationalism.html
Stay well clear of these guys.
Either way, the argument you put forth doesn't hold. In fact none of the arguments you have put forth are tenable.
Again the warning is the same as i said above.
Apparently it is a dispensationalist who says hyper dispensationalism is satanic.
If anyone reading is interested to read more, here is the link to an easy to read article. It includes quite from a dispensationalist denouncing in the strongest terms hyper dispensationalism.
https://www.gotquestions.org/ultra-dispensationalism.html
Stay well clear of these guys.
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Right. That's why Revelation 19:15b uses the "FUTURE TENSE" ("shall rule/shepherd/feed them/the nations [FUTURE tense]") from that point in the chronology (His "RETURN"--same idea of "RETURN" spelled out in both Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 [and parallel] "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN "the meal [G347; see Mt8:11], and Lk19:12,15,17,19 [and parallel] "RETURN," when He will deal out responsibilities having to do with "have thou authority over TEN CITIES..." and "over FIVE CITIES");
..and also why Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 (Armageddon time-slot) corresponds with the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22a[,23]; where, in this Isaiah text (among the chpts commonly known as "the little apocalypse") the SECOND "PUNISH" word is separated (from the FIRST "PUNISH" word of this text) BY "TIME" / A TIME-PERIOD
...(JUST AS Rev 19 and 20:11-15 also are shown to be! ...despite the "Amill-teachings" insistence that there is [supposedly] "NO CORROBORATION" [uh, NOT!])
..and also why Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 (Armageddon time-slot) corresponds with the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22a[,23]; where, in this Isaiah text (among the chpts commonly known as "the little apocalypse") the SECOND "PUNISH" word is separated (from the FIRST "PUNISH" word of this text) BY "TIME" / A TIME-PERIOD
...(JUST AS Rev 19 and 20:11-15 also are shown to be! ...despite the "Amill-teachings" insistence that there is [supposedly] "NO CORROBORATION" [uh, NOT!])
Huh? That's it? Just an emotional denial claim that what I stated is untenable? What does that mean? In other words, when you declare someone is wrong, and fail to lend substance to the allegation, your words are meaningless. I quote the words of Jesus, the One you claim to believe in. So which is it? Never mind what charismatics and cessationists believe. I don't give a rip snort what they believe. What matters is that you claim that Jesus speaks only truth, to which I agree, and then turn around and claim that what Jesus said is untenable. Why?
Your inconsistencies are impossible to grasp with it all slipping out from the hands of understanding on account of the lubrications of irrationality you apply through your silent refusal to back up what you say with anything of substance. Pointing at some comment on a secular website...that's a cop-out. Why won't you explain where I am wrong and you are right?
Please explain why you can't do those things Jesus said within the Kingdom Gospel dispensation. After all, Jesus declared that ALL will do what He said who believe and are baptized. Doesn't that apply to you, given that you believe it's all one, single Gospel, from John the Baptist to Paul?
If you're not going to explain yourself, then why comment at all apart from being nothing more than an antagonist? I would hope you're more than that, and will lend substance to your claim of error on my part. I've explained my questions and analysis from scripture and my own thinking rather than copying and pasting from some other source who is not here to defend their own claims.
MM
Your inconsistencies are impossible to grasp with it all slipping out from the hands of understanding on account of the lubrications of irrationality you apply through your silent refusal to back up what you say with anything of substance. Pointing at some comment on a secular website...that's a cop-out. Why won't you explain where I am wrong and you are right?
Please explain why you can't do those things Jesus said within the Kingdom Gospel dispensation. After all, Jesus declared that ALL will do what He said who believe and are baptized. Doesn't that apply to you, given that you believe it's all one, single Gospel, from John the Baptist to Paul?
If you're not going to explain yourself, then why comment at all apart from being nothing more than an antagonist? I would hope you're more than that, and will lend substance to your claim of error on my part. I've explained my questions and analysis from scripture and my own thinking rather than copying and pasting from some other source who is not here to defend their own claims.
MM
Certainly, that was in and under the mosaic covenant.
Why don't I put myself under the yoke of the Mosaic covenant, thats simple, i am under the gentle yoke of Chriat Jesus (new covenant) . I abide in Jesus as Jesus himself taught, paul masterfully explains the outworking of this more fully and theologically.
The whole Old testamnet speaks of and. Points to Jesus, even the temple is a shadow of Jesus, dor he is the true Isrealite.. The prophet, the High priest and the King reigning already. The shadow and types are all gone, the real thing has arrived in Jesus. I hope you don't miss that point.. In Jesus, he is the good news.
Anyhow, i pray John146, that you see the danger of hyper/ultra dispensationalism. The terrible teaching it applies to Jesus, which could only have a demonic origin.
Thanks for your concern, but trust me, I’m good. Paul’s words are the words of Jesus. Jesus taught him through an abundance of revelations. Why would there be a need of more revelation, an abundance of revelation, if all Paul needed was the words of Jesus as he spoke during his earthly ministry? The Lord could have just had Paul go learn from the disciples.
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That is indeed true. It is Jesus who instructed Paul by revealing to him the mystery that no other apostle was aware until revealed through Paul. The Lord had to do something given that Israel failed in their acceptance of Messiah. Apart from that, nobody had a path to salvation, even though salvation is of the Jews. They failed in their responsibility to be the salt and light to the world, so the mystery hidden in God from creation became the alternative to Israel, with Gentiles and Jews having entrance into salvation apart from Israel, which is why we are not bound to the Mosaic Law.
Once the body of Christ is raptured from this earth, the Kingdom Gospel will once again become the avenue of salvation, all the way through the Millennium, just as Jesus prophesied when He said that they will have to "endure unto the end so that they SHALL be saved."
That's the Lord's way of doing things, and those who don't like it will have to take that up with Him.
Good stuff, John146.
MM
Once the body of Christ is raptured from this earth, the Kingdom Gospel will once again become the avenue of salvation, all the way through the Millennium, just as Jesus prophesied when He said that they will have to "endure unto the end so that they SHALL be saved."
That's the Lord's way of doing things, and those who don't like it will have to take that up with Him.
Good stuff, John146.
MM
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When Jesus said this:
John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
The preposition "of" in this verse, according to Thayer's Greek Lexicon, means that salvation, " comes from the Jews, John 4:22 "
So, attempts at "spiritualizing" this into the "of" being only about Jesus, that's false. Salvation coming FROM the Jews was only possible by the shed Blood of Christ, shed upon that cross. Some seem to have a problem with all this, which is a problem with them in rebellion against the word of God for what it says. Following the stupidity of denominational dogmas on this is nothing but challenge and rebellion against God for how He sovereignly chose as to how His salvation for mankind would be dispensed to the rest of the world.
What we see more and more of in these modern times is various evangelical gang leaders forming against Israel, being anti-Semitic in their support of those who are against Israel, and even siding with Islamic terrorists! This is clearly an outflow of replacement theology, which is no theology at all because it is nothing more than them siding with Satan, who is NOT deity.
Those on that side who leave this earth on that side, they will find themselves at much more loss than anything they could ever have imagined!
The Gospel of Grace is the only avenue at this time for salvation because of the decline of Israel in her continued rejection of Messiah, who has already come in Christ Jesus. We ALL have salvation now ONLY through the grace of the Lord through faith.
MM
John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
The preposition "of" in this verse, according to Thayer's Greek Lexicon, means that salvation, " comes from the Jews, John 4:22 "
So, attempts at "spiritualizing" this into the "of" being only about Jesus, that's false. Salvation coming FROM the Jews was only possible by the shed Blood of Christ, shed upon that cross. Some seem to have a problem with all this, which is a problem with them in rebellion against the word of God for what it says. Following the stupidity of denominational dogmas on this is nothing but challenge and rebellion against God for how He sovereignly chose as to how His salvation for mankind would be dispensed to the rest of the world.
What we see more and more of in these modern times is various evangelical gang leaders forming against Israel, being anti-Semitic in their support of those who are against Israel, and even siding with Islamic terrorists! This is clearly an outflow of replacement theology, which is no theology at all because it is nothing more than them siding with Satan, who is NOT deity.
Those on that side who leave this earth on that side, they will find themselves at much more loss than anything they could ever have imagined!
The Gospel of Grace is the only avenue at this time for salvation because of the decline of Israel in her continued rejection of Messiah, who has already come in Christ Jesus. We ALL have salvation now ONLY through the grace of the Lord through faith.
MM
Good points, but Hebrews 7:18-10:1 also ought to be cited, which teaches that Jesus fulfilled and thereby ended the old Mosaic covenant aimed mainly at the Jews for the purpose of providing Messiah and instituted a new covenant aimed at all humanity for the purpose of providing salvation for everyone ideally per 1 TM 2:3-6.
How, then, would you apply any measure of understanding of this parable down below if in fact you believe the "covenant" was handed over to Gentiles in addition to the Jews rather than the "testament?" Far too many people use the term "covenant" much too loosely. Given that words mean things...except here in the West where it's a free-for-all, mosh pit hammering of language to try and make all of language subjective.
Luke 13:6-9
6 He spake also this parable; A certain [man] had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung [it]:
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
The cup Jesus passed is stated as being:
Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Mark 14:24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
Luke 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [is] the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
The reason for the choice of word:
Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
The Lord was never in the business of making covenants with Gentiles, but only with us who were of Israel because we are the ones He chose to be a peculiar people in that regard, set apart through custom, mannerisms, diet and morality through His Law to us that we were supposed to disseminate to the world that Gentiles may THEN join with us to be saved. Yes, Abraham was a Gentile, but he also became circumcised, which brought him into a different relationship and differential standing in relation to the rest of humanity. This is driven home by what Paul stated to the Gentiles:
Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
The Gospel of Grace, then, bridged that barrier against Gentiles after Israel entered into the period of our diminishing because of our continued rejection of Christ Jesus as Messiah and Savior, as is shown in that parable quoted above.
MM
Luke 13:6-9
6 He spake also this parable; A certain [man] had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung [it]:
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
The cup Jesus passed is stated as being:
Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Mark 14:24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
Luke 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [is] the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
The reason for the choice of word:
Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
The Lord was never in the business of making covenants with Gentiles, but only with us who were of Israel because we are the ones He chose to be a peculiar people in that regard, set apart through custom, mannerisms, diet and morality through His Law to us that we were supposed to disseminate to the world that Gentiles may THEN join with us to be saved. Yes, Abraham was a Gentile, but he also became circumcised, which brought him into a different relationship and differential standing in relation to the rest of humanity. This is driven home by what Paul stated to the Gentiles:
Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
The Gospel of Grace, then, bridged that barrier against Gentiles after Israel entered into the period of our diminishing because of our continued rejection of Christ Jesus as Messiah and Savior, as is shown in that parable quoted above.
MM
Some of the confusions in all this stems from the cruddy translations on the market that many think are nothing more than clarifications to the allegedly "difficulties" in the KJV, which is utterly false! Here's an example among many that can be shown where the newer translations provide the polar opposite to the original, majority texts:
Colossians 2:18 KJV Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind...
Colossians 2:18 NIV Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind.
Colossians 2:18 NASB20 [Take care that] no one keeps defrauding you of your prize by delighting in humility and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on [visions] he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind...
Colossians 2:18 RSV Let no one disqualify you, insisting on self-abasement and worship of angels, taking his stand on visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind...
Even the newer versions don't agree with one another in how they word the key indicator, but they still lean in the direction of the exact opposite of the majority texts.
I'm not rooted in the KJV-Only dogma since I don't entirely trust the KJV itself. I mitigate this as beast as I can by delving into the Greek and Hebrew of the original languages of the majority texts rather than to rely on the Alexandrian minority and historically altered texts at the hands of the ancient Gnostics of that era, and the Rabbinical altered texts of the OT Hebrew by comparing it with the Septuagint Greek texts of the OT. I realize there are all manner of critiques about any and all sources, but there is one that is indeed empirical and absolutely trustworthy, and that being Holy Spirit (1 John 2:27).
MM
Colossians 2:18 KJV Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind...
Colossians 2:18 NIV Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind.
Colossians 2:18 NASB20 [Take care that] no one keeps defrauding you of your prize by delighting in humility and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on [visions] he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind...
Colossians 2:18 RSV Let no one disqualify you, insisting on self-abasement and worship of angels, taking his stand on visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind...
Even the newer versions don't agree with one another in how they word the key indicator, but they still lean in the direction of the exact opposite of the majority texts.
I'm not rooted in the KJV-Only dogma since I don't entirely trust the KJV itself. I mitigate this as beast as I can by delving into the Greek and Hebrew of the original languages of the majority texts rather than to rely on the Alexandrian minority and historically altered texts at the hands of the ancient Gnostics of that era, and the Rabbinical altered texts of the OT Hebrew by comparing it with the Septuagint Greek texts of the OT. I realize there are all manner of critiques about any and all sources, but there is one that is indeed empirical and absolutely trustworthy, and that being Holy Spirit (1 John 2:27).
MM
There seems to be some ideas floating around out there that those who believe in Paul having been given the revelation of the mystery is the antithesis to doctrines of demons such as replacement theology that has taken root in some Reformed organizations, and that is indeed a true belief. Paul was shown by Christ the revelation of the mystery that does indeed show to us that very reality:
Romans 11:13-24
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
This should be a sobering instruction that remains not only overlooked by those of the Reformed stripe, but spiritualized into saying what it clearly does not say. Liberal theologians the world over have for years been vomiting their demonic replacement theology teachings, claiming that the body of Christ being grafted into the natural tree in the place of Israel is a permanent replacement, which these verses clearly warn against, stating that such a belief is dangerous, making one subject to also being cut off because of such pride! They have no fear of God and His wrath, but many of them will indeed remain here to taste of His wrath during the tribulation, and then they will understand their error...maybe.
The body of Christ being grafted into the natural tree is a matter of us partaking of the "fatness" of the tree, which is its nourishment to the branches, not the promises made to Abraham and His descendants! To say that is the case is to convey to the world that God is fickle and unreliable, His word meaning nothing because of changes to His plans and His control...as if He is caught by surprise and thus changes His mind to fit His plans to the flow of time and events in the world.
Again, that is nothing more than doctrines of demons, and the inevitable outcome from their manipulations in the minds of those who have made themselves subject to them.
MM
Romans 11:13-24
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
This should be a sobering instruction that remains not only overlooked by those of the Reformed stripe, but spiritualized into saying what it clearly does not say. Liberal theologians the world over have for years been vomiting their demonic replacement theology teachings, claiming that the body of Christ being grafted into the natural tree in the place of Israel is a permanent replacement, which these verses clearly warn against, stating that such a belief is dangerous, making one subject to also being cut off because of such pride! They have no fear of God and His wrath, but many of them will indeed remain here to taste of His wrath during the tribulation, and then they will understand their error...maybe.
The body of Christ being grafted into the natural tree is a matter of us partaking of the "fatness" of the tree, which is its nourishment to the branches, not the promises made to Abraham and His descendants! To say that is the case is to convey to the world that God is fickle and unreliable, His word meaning nothing because of changes to His plans and His control...as if He is caught by surprise and thus changes His mind to fit His plans to the flow of time and events in the world.
Again, that is nothing more than doctrines of demons, and the inevitable outcome from their manipulations in the minds of those who have made themselves subject to them.
MM
It seems some believe that Jews coming into the kingdom by way of the new covenant is replacement theology.
Every covenant finds its fulfillment in the new covenant. If it was always God's plan to bless all nations through the seed of Abraham, ie. Christ, the old covenant that dealt with only Israel would inevitably have to end?
Every covenant finds its fulfillment in the new covenant. If it was always God's plan to bless all nations through the seed of Abraham, ie. Christ, the old covenant that dealt with only Israel would inevitably have to end?