Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

[studentoftheword]

Anyone who tells you the return of Jesus is imminent is dead wrong.

You can believe that if you want to --but that is just not so ---just maybe your wrong ----

Read all for yourselves ---I just posted this

Can the return of Christ truly be said to be imminent?

https://www.gotquestions.org/imminent-return-Christ.html

At this point, it is good to distinguish between the second coming of Christ, proper, and the rapture of the church.

The second coming of Christ, when He defeats His enemies and sets up His kingdom, will not occur until after certain other end-times events take place, including the tribulation (Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6–18). Therefore, the second coming is not imminent.

However, according to the pre-tribulational view, the rapture will take place before the tribulation. The rapture could occur at any moment (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54) and can rightly be called “imminent.”

 

[Inquisitor]

As usual.... you thought wrong.

Believers will be killed. But, not all.

For there will be believers who endure to the end of the Tribulation.
They will be delivered (saved) and will enter alive into the Millennium.

How do you manage to get so much wrong? What sect trained you?

Where in the scripture does it say that some escape being killed in the tribulation?

Where in the scripture does it say they endure to the end of the tribulation?

The executed saints in the tribulation are in heaven with Jesus (Revelation 7).

Revelation 7:14-15
I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out
of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the
blood of the Lamb. For this reason they are before the throne of God, and they serve Him
day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle
over them".

 

[Inquisitor]

I'm not gay, either.
Sorry to disappoint you.


Which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion
and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.

Galatians 1:7

Eschatology is not the gospel.

1 Corinthians 15 is the gospel.

 

[Inquisitor]

You can believe that if you want to --but that is just not so ---just maybe your wrong ----

Read all for yourselves ---I just posted this

Can the return of Christ truly be said to be imminent?

https://www.gotquestions.org/imminent-return-Christ.html

At this point, it is good to distinguish between the second coming of Christ, proper, and the rapture of the church.

The second coming of Christ, when He defeats His enemies and sets up His kingdom, will not occur until after certain other end-times events take place, including the tribulation (Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6–18). Therefore, the second coming is not imminent.

However, according to the pre-tribulational view, the rapture will take place before the tribulation. The rapture could occur at any moment (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54) and can rightly be called “imminent.”

If any event, any prophecy, must occur before Jesus returns.

Then the return of Jesus can never be imminent.

If the roaring of the oceans terrifies people then Jesus cannot return, before that event
occurs. Then the return of Jesus cannot take place before that event.

Your contradicting the meaning of "imminent".

 

[Genez]

Where in the scripture does it say that some escape being killed in the tribulation?
.

Better yet... where do find that all will be killed?
It does not exist. So, why have to answer your premise?

Eschatology is not the gospel.

1 Corinthians 15 is the gospel.

How come you can know so much, yet comprehend so little?

Is it deliberate?

 

[Inquisitor]

Better yet... where do find that all will be killed?
It does not exist. So, why have to answer your premise?


How come you can know so much, yet comprehend so little?

Is it deliberate?

The Inquisitor in his own mind is great.

Here we are.

Revelation 13:15
And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast
would even speak and cause all who do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

The text says "all" not some.

 

[Genez]

Where in the scripture does it say that some escape being killed in the tribulation?

Where in the scripture does it say they endure to the end of the tribulation?

Now, if they will be brought back to life to reign with Him?
And? ... If all believers were killed?
They would have no one to reign over!

Would they?

 

[Inquisitor]

Better yet... where do find that all will be killed?
It does not exist. So, why have to answer your premise?


How come you can know so much, yet comprehend so little?

Is it deliberate?

Now your turn, from the scripture where does it say "some" escape.

 

[Genez]

The Inquisitor in his own mind is great.

Here we are.

Revelation 13:15
And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast
would even speak and cause all who do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

The text says "all" not some.

You are out of context...

Look a few verses earlier. 13:9-10.

If anyone has an ear, he should listen:​

​

If anyone is destined for captivity,​

into captivity he goes.​

If anyone is to be killed with a sword,​

with a sword he will be killed.​

This demands the perseverance ​

and faith of the saints.​

Some will go into captivity.

Some will be killed.

Not all!

 

[Inquisitor]

Now, if they will be brought back to life to reign with Him?
And? ... If all believers were killed?
They would have no one to reign over!

Would they?

Are they reigning with Christ in heaven or on earth?

The tribulation saints are before the throne of God in heaven, there special.

 

[Genez]

Are they reigning with Christ in heaven or on earth?

The tribulation saints are before the throne of God in heaven, there special.

Who, or what, is anybody going to reign over on earth if all believers are killed???

 

[Genez]

If anyone has an ear, he should listen:​

​

If anyone is destined for captivity,​

into captivity he goes.​

If anyone is to be killed with a sword,​

with a sword he will be killed.​

​

This demands the perseverance ​

and faith of the saints.​

Revelation 13:9-10.

Some will go into captivity.

Some will be killed.

Well?

Inquisitor is out the door?

 

[Inquisitor]

You are out of context...

Look a few verses earlier. 13:9-10.

If anyone has an ear, he should listen:​

​

If anyone is destined for captivity,​

into captivity he goes.​

If anyone is to be killed with a sword,​

with a sword he will be killed.​

This demands the perseverance ​

and faith of the saints.​

Some will go into captivity.

Some will be killed.

Not all!

So your saying that we (the saints) go through the 42 month tribulation.

Your definitely not pre-trib or mid-trib.

All will worship the beast the text says.

I would be doubtful if any Christian could survive in a world like that.

Though there may be some folk hiding in bunkers for 42 months.

The numbers would be so low it would not be worth mentioning.

 

[Inquisitor]

Who, or what, is anybody going to reign over on earth if all believers are killed???

That's my question not yours.

I cannot workout who is on earth during the millennium.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Revelation 13:15
And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast
would even speak and cause all who do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

The text says "all" not some.

Well, that verse shows his "intention / aim / objective"... but he's not successful in his endeavor entirely, otherwise 1) Rev15:2 couldn't say (as it does) "...them that GOT THE VICTORY OVER the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name..." ; Now while it is true that THESE PARTICULAR persons have been killed because of it (per context), this doesn't mean that 100% of the "believers / saints / righteous" will be killed. Recall we talked about how it is only Rev20:4b speaks of those "beheaded / martyred / killed" in the last 3.5 years; but verse 20:4a (corresponding with Dan7:22,27[,25]) speaks of the "STILL-LIVING" saints at that same time-slot (not being in need of "resurrection" because they haven't DIED)--They will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies.


[these are persons / saints having come to faith in Christ IN / DURING / WITHIN the Trib yrs, FOLLOWING "our Rapture"]


Daniel 12:12 speaks to this also, where it says, "BLESSED is he that WAITETH and COMETH TO the 1335 days" (corresponding with about 8-9 other "BLESSED" passages speaking to this SAME issue and time-slot and purpose--I've posted some of those references earlier in this thread: Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44... Matt24:42-51... Matt25:31-34... Rev19:9... and many more).

 

[Inquisitor]

Now, if they will be brought back to life to reign with Him?
And? ... If all believers were killed?
They would have no one to reign over!

Would they?

Of course not.

What about the 144,000?

 

[Genez]

So your saying that we (the saints) go through the 42 month tribulation.u

Your definitely not pre-trib or mid-trib.

All will worship the beast the text says.

I would be doubtful if any Christian could survive in a world like that.

Though there may be some folk hiding in bunkers for 42 months.

The numbers would be so low it would not be worth mentioning.

If you can get just one thing right I would answer you....

You're a plant. Can't be for real.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

You're a plant. Can't be for real.

I kinda have been wondering the same...

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ @Inquisitor , my point IS NOT to say this passage is saying these people didn't DIE [/be KILLED]; my point is to show that NOT "ALL" receive the mark, though that is the AIM / PURPOSE / OBJECTIVE of the [one in] verse 13:16;

Then I went on to support my other point that not all "saints" will be KILLED / MARTYRED / BEHEADED in the Trib... SOME will survive to the END of it and ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies (I supplied a few passages covering this point in the chronology).





So here's what Rev15 says (per your question)... and again, I'm not saying THESE SAINTS (in this context) haven't been KILLED... I'm saying the one "aiming / purposing" to have "ALL" take the mark, isn't successful (in that endeavor) OVER THESE:

Rev 15:2
And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
Rev 15:3
And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
Rev 15:4
Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest. [corresponds with Dan7:27, etc]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ I'm no longer seeing "Inquisitor's" post mentioning a question about whether Rev15 actually says what I was quoting it as saying.

Where'd that post go?! LOL