Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture
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Zech. 14:16 Then every one that survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of booths.
This is talking about unrighteous people who enter the millennium.
Unless you put all the pieces together you will be lost
This is talking about unrighteous people who enter the millennium.
Unless you put all the pieces together you will be lost
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At the time-slot you are referring to, this is what will take place:
-- "And before Him shall be gathered ALL NATIONS...";
--to the "Sheep (OF THE NATIONS), He will say, "Come, ye BLESSED of My Father, inherit the kingdom having been prepared for you FROM the foundation of the world" (i.e. they will ENTER the MK age... in their mortal bodies);
--to the others He will say, "ye CURSED" (and they will NOT ENTER the MK age);
--the Zech verse isn't saying that 100% of the populations "of the nations" participated in the "coming against" Jerusalem (in other words, Jesus is not going to FAIL at that point by accidentally missing a few [in what verse 12 describes] "who are on the wrong team," so to speak, so that they "skate past" this, and thus enter the MK age [though being "unbelievers"], no!);
--His disciples asked Him a question in Matt24:3 that was BASED ON what He had ALREADY spoken to them about in Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 (re: "the end [singular] of the age [singular]"... when the angels will "REAP"). So Jesus *response* (in chpts 24-24) corresponds with what we read in Matt13 ABOUT THIS Subject... and there, it also refers to a similar SEPARATION-judgment (and this chpt 13 about "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" follows the context of the previous chapter where Jesus had already referred to "the age [singular] to come]"--i.e. what the disciples understood rightly to BE what we today call "the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom age")
So yes, it has already been taken into consideration by those of us holding the pre-trib rapture view.
Zech 14 has not been overlooked or missed, and also "fits" perfectly into its proper place.
This [as 'believers'/saints/the righteous] will be "LEFT" on the earth, to ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies (just as both Matt24 & Lk17 talked about).
[note that the "left" word in Zech14:16LXX is the same Greek word used in Titus 1:5 - kataleipo G2641 - https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/tit/1/5/t_conc_1130005 ]
-- "And before Him shall be gathered ALL NATIONS...";
--to the "Sheep (OF THE NATIONS), He will say, "Come, ye BLESSED of My Father, inherit the kingdom having been prepared for you FROM the foundation of the world" (i.e. they will ENTER the MK age... in their mortal bodies);
--to the others He will say, "ye CURSED" (and they will NOT ENTER the MK age);
--the Zech verse isn't saying that 100% of the populations "of the nations" participated in the "coming against" Jerusalem (in other words, Jesus is not going to FAIL at that point by accidentally missing a few [in what verse 12 describes] "who are on the wrong team," so to speak, so that they "skate past" this, and thus enter the MK age [though being "unbelievers"], no!);
--His disciples asked Him a question in Matt24:3 that was BASED ON what He had ALREADY spoken to them about in Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 (re: "the end [singular] of the age [singular]"... when the angels will "REAP"). So Jesus *response* (in chpts 24-24) corresponds with what we read in Matt13 ABOUT THIS Subject... and there, it also refers to a similar SEPARATION-judgment (and this chpt 13 about "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" follows the context of the previous chapter where Jesus had already referred to "the age [singular] to come]"--i.e. what the disciples understood rightly to BE what we today call "the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom age")
So yes, it has already been taken into consideration by those of us holding the pre-trib rapture view.
Zech 14 has not been overlooked or missed, and also "fits" perfectly into its proper place.
This [as 'believers'/saints/the righteous] will be "LEFT" on the earth, to ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies (just as both Matt24 & Lk17 talked about).
[note that the "left" word in Zech14:16LXX is the same Greek word used in Titus 1:5 - kataleipo G2641 - https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/tit/1/5/t_conc_1130005 ]
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Divine Watermark is correct in saying these are those who enter the millennium
The nations are unrighteous gentiles who came out the Tribulation
In this judgement the sheep are not saved by faith but works.
The Day of the Lord ( 1000 year reign) has been in place for some years
Being saved by faith ended when the Day of the Lord started.
The sheep are those who assisted the jews fleeing Jerusalem with nothing-providing water, food, clothing, ect
The goats go into eternal punishment
The nations are unrighteous gentiles who came out the Tribulation
In this judgement the sheep are not saved by faith but works.
The Day of the Lord ( 1000 year reign) has been in place for some years
Being saved by faith ended when the Day of the Lord started.
The sheep are those who assisted the jews fleeing Jerusalem with nothing-providing water, food, clothing, ect
The goats go into eternal punishment
I hope you don't mind my asking, but where does the text and/or the context say that? Only those who do not have the mark, nor had worshipped the image of the beast, they will move on into the Millennium, yes.
Given that the Lord must rule the Millennium with an "iron rod," that gives ample indication that the offspring of the nations will become problematic if not kept in check. That it will not rain on the lands of the nations that refuse to attend the Feast of Tabernacles each year, that too speaks loud volumes to the rebellious spirit that will still be in the hearts of men, even within that pristine environment.
It even seems reasonable to say that the babies born in the Millennium will be those who had been killed or died in this world prior to the tribulation so that they will be guaranteed to reach the point of accountability for sin. I say that because it has always been the reality that most of humanity rejects God, which would hold true of the children and babies who died before reaching that point of account. It just seems just to my thinking that the Lord will do that to ensure the totality of justice rather than to place into Heaven those millions who would otherwise have rejected Him in this life. But, this is just my thinking on that topic that was never revealed anywhere in scripture of which I am aware. Some of us Messianic Jews believe this, some do not, which is fine because it's not central to the faith.
MM
Given that the Lord must rule the Millennium with an "iron rod," that gives ample indication that the offspring of the nations will become problematic if not kept in check. That it will not rain on the lands of the nations that refuse to attend the Feast of Tabernacles each year, that too speaks loud volumes to the rebellious spirit that will still be in the hearts of men, even within that pristine environment.
It even seems reasonable to say that the babies born in the Millennium will be those who had been killed or died in this world prior to the tribulation so that they will be guaranteed to reach the point of accountability for sin. I say that because it has always been the reality that most of humanity rejects God, which would hold true of the children and babies who died before reaching that point of account. It just seems just to my thinking that the Lord will do that to ensure the totality of justice rather than to place into Heaven those millions who would otherwise have rejected Him in this life. But, this is just my thinking on that topic that was never revealed anywhere in scripture of which I am aware. Some of us Messianic Jews believe this, some do not, which is fine because it's not central to the faith.
MM
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We are not saved by works in this age but in the age to come.
I agree a rebellious spirit will still abound, even death still applies, but a much different time than the age we live in now. As you quoted --rod of iron.
I disagree the babies who died previously will be those born in the millennium.
I would like to add those who were unrighteous jews were not included in the sheep/goat judgement. One third of the jews who survive will enter the kingdom in the millennium.
We are not saved by works in this age but in the age to come.
I agree a rebellious spirit will still abound, even death still applies, but a much different time than the age we live in now. As you quoted --rod of iron.
I disagree the babies who died previously will be those born in the millennium.
I would like to add those who were unrighteous jews were not included in the sheep/goat judgement. One third of the jews who survive will enter the kingdom in the millennium.
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A few things, about this part of your post ^ :
--"the Day of the Lord" (per Paul 1Th5:1-3) ARRIVES [/STARTS] with the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" (OF "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that Jesus had spoken of), which "beginning of birth PANGS" *ARE* the "SEALS" (so the FIRST one is the START of the "7 year period"); The day of the Lord does not ARRIVE at the time-slot of His Second Coming to the earth (Rev19), but will still be in existence then (as well as throughout the entire MK age--All three aspects pertain to that/DOTL);
--I do not believe that these "Sheep" will be saved by works, but that these particular works (during the Trib yrs) will be evidence of their "faith" (I agree that "the least of these My brethren" vv.40,45 [who I believe are the believing remnant of Jews, in the Trib yrs] are NOT who are BEING judged in this separation-judgment);
--Matt24:9 ("ye shall be hated by all the nations for My name's sake") also speaks of them being persecuted in the FIRST half (not merely after the ones "flee" from Judaea at MID-trib); The believing remnant of Jews are who will be DOING the "INVITING" (TO the MK age) DURING the Trib yrs... Matt24:14 / 26:13 speaks to this (invitation msg); some of the RESULTS of this invitation [msg going out during the trib yrs] are shown in Rev7:9,14 "a great multitude... of all the nationS..."
Yes, and like I said above, even prior to the mid-point of the 7 yrs, as I see it. But yes, mostly thereafter (per Rev12:6,14,16a,17b).
Yes, and this corresponds with the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21,22[,23] (parallel Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5a); whereas the SECOND "PUNISH" word in that text, corresponds with the LATER "GWTj" time-slot (when the final sentence is carried out, so to speak, re: "the DEAD [/unsaved]" of all times). In the Isaiah text, the two are separated by TIME... just as Rev 19 (2nd Coming to the earth) and Rev20 (GWTj) are. It's just that Rev supplies the "length" of time between the two (1000 years).
--"the Day of the Lord" (per Paul 1Th5:1-3) ARRIVES [/STARTS] with the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" (OF "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that Jesus had spoken of), which "beginning of birth PANGS" *ARE* the "SEALS" (so the FIRST one is the START of the "7 year period"); The day of the Lord does not ARRIVE at the time-slot of His Second Coming to the earth (Rev19), but will still be in existence then (as well as throughout the entire MK age--All three aspects pertain to that/DOTL);
--I do not believe that these "Sheep" will be saved by works, but that these particular works (during the Trib yrs) will be evidence of their "faith" (I agree that "the least of these My brethren" vv.40,45 [who I believe are the believing remnant of Jews, in the Trib yrs] are NOT who are BEING judged in this separation-judgment);
--Matt24:9 ("ye shall be hated by all the nations for My name's sake") also speaks of them being persecuted in the FIRST half (not merely after the ones "flee" from Judaea at MID-trib); The believing remnant of Jews are who will be DOING the "INVITING" (TO the MK age) DURING the Trib yrs... Matt24:14 / 26:13 speaks to this (invitation msg); some of the RESULTS of this invitation [msg going out during the trib yrs] are shown in Rev7:9,14 "a great multitude... of all the nationS..."
Yes, and like I said above, even prior to the mid-point of the 7 yrs, as I see it. But yes, mostly thereafter (per Rev12:6,14,16a,17b).
Yes, and this corresponds with the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21,22[,23] (parallel Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5a); whereas the SECOND "PUNISH" word in that text, corresponds with the LATER "GWTj" time-slot (when the final sentence is carried out, so to speak, re: "the DEAD [/unsaved]" of all times). In the Isaiah text, the two are separated by TIME... just as Rev 19 (2nd Coming to the earth) and Rev20 (GWTj) are. It's just that Rev supplies the "length" of time between the two (1000 years).
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This may give you question and answers on the Pre-Trib Rapture
John MacArthur explains the Pre Trib Rapture
Worth the listen folks ------
The Great Disappearance Interview with Dr. David Jeremiah
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=3545276242392625
John MacArthur explains the Pre Trib Rapture
Worth the listen folks ------
The Great Disappearance Interview with Dr. David Jeremiah
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=3545276242392625
I agree with this part of your post.
I disagree with this part.
Reason being, although there are exceptions to the rule (ie. Lazarus), the Lord knowing all things would know how that child would have responded had they lived long enough and I think the Lord has allowed young death to test our own trust in Him. Do we trust Him to do what is right or not, even if we have no concrete evidence?
Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
Of course, this too is just my opinion, but I think there are biblical grounds for it.
I disagree with this part.
Reason being, although there are exceptions to the rule (ie. Lazarus), the Lord knowing all things would know how that child would have responded had they lived long enough and I think the Lord has allowed young death to test our own trust in Him. Do we trust Him to do what is right or not, even if we have no concrete evidence?
Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
Of course, this too is just my opinion, but I think there are biblical grounds for it.
Anyone who tells you the return of Jesus is imminent is dead wrong.
Luke 21:7-8
They asked Him questions, saying, “Teacher, when therefore will these things happen?
And what will be the sign when these things are about to take place?” And He said,
“See to it that you are not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,
and, the time is near'.
The apostles may have thought Jesus was returning soon but they were wrong.
The gospel had to be preached to all nations.
The temple was still standing.
The fullness or the age of the Gentiles had not even started.
The great falling away had not occurred yet.
I will repeat the quotation above.
"See to it that you are not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He, and, the time is near"
The time is not near and cannot be near until the verses below occur.
Luke 21:25-26
There will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth distress among nations,
in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, people fainting from fear and the expectation
of the things that are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
If anyone tells you Jesus could return today, do not listen to them.
Luke 21:8
...Do not go after them.
Luke 21:7-8
They asked Him questions, saying, “Teacher, when therefore will these things happen?
And what will be the sign when these things are about to take place?” And He said,
“See to it that you are not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,
and, the time is near'.
The apostles may have thought Jesus was returning soon but they were wrong.
The gospel had to be preached to all nations.
The temple was still standing.
The fullness or the age of the Gentiles had not even started.
The great falling away had not occurred yet.
I will repeat the quotation above.
"See to it that you are not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He, and, the time is near"
The time is not near and cannot be near until the verses below occur.
Luke 21:25-26
There will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth distress among nations,
in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, people fainting from fear and the expectation
of the things that are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
If anyone tells you Jesus could return today, do not listen to them.
Luke 21:8
...Do not go after them.