Loss of salvation???
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“And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”
1 Timothy 2:14 KJV
Yep what that one sentence has to say what do you think Paul’s talking about when he says it ?
That eve didn’t know this ?
“And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.”
Genesis 3:2-3 KJV
So her transgression was different ? Than adams who knew the same thing ?
either way you’ve missed my point entirely we’re told In Christ as they were before
“And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.”
Luke 21:8 KJV
“Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them;”
Deuteronomy 11:16 KJV
“Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.”
1 John 3:7-8
“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”
Galatians 6:7-9 KJV
“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
“For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
Ephesians 5:5-7 KJV
were still being told not to be deceived all Paul is saying in tbat sentence is the woman was the one who first to fall for the lie and spread it , her transgression led to adams . that’s his reasoning for an argument he’s making about women being silent and in submission .
We need to look at what’s being said or we get to the wrong conclusions
Adam transgressed the same commandment eve did and they both followed satans lie rather than Gods truth
1 Timothy 2:14 KJV
Yep what that one sentence has to say what do you think Paul’s talking about when he says it ?
That eve didn’t know this ?
“And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.”
Genesis 3:2-3 KJV
So her transgression was different ? Than adams who knew the same thing ?
either way you’ve missed my point entirely we’re told In Christ as they were before
“And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.”
Luke 21:8 KJV
“Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them;”
Deuteronomy 11:16 KJV
“Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.”
1 John 3:7-8
“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”
Galatians 6:7-9 KJV
“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
“For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
Ephesians 5:5-7 KJV
were still being told not to be deceived all Paul is saying in tbat sentence is the woman was the one who first to fall for the lie and spread it , her transgression led to adams . that’s his reasoning for an argument he’s making about women being silent and in submission .
We need to look at what’s being said or we get to the wrong conclusions
Adam transgressed the same commandment eve did and they both followed satans lie rather than Gods truth
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They both committed the same act, but they did so for different reasons. Eve was deceived. She believed what Satan said and ate. Adam was not deceived. He did not believe what Satan said. If he had, he would also have been deceived. He sinned believing death would follow. It can be debated how much he understood about that death, but the Bible is clear that Adam was not deceived.
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“Adam was not deceived. He did not believe what Satan said. “
“He sinned believing death would follow.”
So Adam willingly Killed himself ? And so does everyone else who knows what God said and rejects it right ?
“And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”
Revelation 12:9 KJV
h
“He sinned believing death would follow.”
So Adam willingly Killed himself ? And so does everyone else who knows what God said and rejects it right ?
“And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”
Revelation 12:9 KJV
h
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Yes, Adam knowingly killed himself, but not only himself...he killed us all.
You can continue however long you like saying Adam was deceived, but the Bible is clear that he wasn't. The verse in Revelation that you shared doesn't mean as you suppose. It means wherever you find deception in the world, Satan is ultimately the cause of it. Much like 1 John 2 doesn't mean Jesus was the propitiation for the entire human race. Instead, it means wherever one finds genuine salvation, Jesus is the ultimate cause of that.
Jesus Himself was in the world. If Revelation 12:9 means as you suppose, He must have been deceived as well.
This probably opens up a whole new can of worms.
You can continue however long you like saying Adam was deceived, but the Bible is clear that he wasn't. The verse in Revelation that you shared doesn't mean as you suppose. It means wherever you find deception in the world, Satan is ultimately the cause of it. Much like 1 John 2 doesn't mean Jesus was the propitiation for the entire human race. Instead, it means wherever one finds genuine salvation, Jesus is the ultimate cause of that.
Jesus Himself was in the world. If Revelation 12:9 means as you suppose, He must have been deceived as well.
This probably opens up a whole new can of worms.
I havent said Adam was deceived it never even related to my point to begin with. What I’m saying is he followed a deception through his wife , and that’s still what kills mankind following false doctrine …..When you hear the truth like Adam and Eve both did
It has nothing at all to do with Paul’s argument tbat he doesn’t allow women to speak in church or tbat tbey just remain in full submission that’s what you are quoting from
“A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”
1 Timothy 2:11-15
You are then interpreting this as if Paul is saying Adam never then after she did followed what she told him and became a sinner too , and also like was in the transgression after her she did it first is the point he’s making as to an argument of why he Paul , doesn’t allow women to speak and teach in church based on eves transgression that’s his argument ….
eves transgression she is offered an alternative belief and accepts it and it changes her mind ( deceived ) and so she transgresses ….and it is what starts everything
“And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.”
Genesis 3:6 KJV
How adams transgression happened which made him a sinner too
“And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;”
Genesis 3:17 KJV
He listened to his wife , who listened to the serpent and the false doctrine led them both to transgression.
sounds like eve started a “grace revolution “ where it doesn’t matter what you do the fruit won’t harm you like the lord said to me lol ….
It has nothing at all to do with Paul’s argument tbat he doesn’t allow women to speak in church or tbat tbey just remain in full submission that’s what you are quoting from
“A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”
1 Timothy 2:11-15
You are then interpreting this as if Paul is saying Adam never then after she did followed what she told him and became a sinner too , and also like was in the transgression after her she did it first is the point he’s making as to an argument of why he Paul , doesn’t allow women to speak and teach in church based on eves transgression that’s his argument ….
eves transgression she is offered an alternative belief and accepts it and it changes her mind ( deceived ) and so she transgresses ….and it is what starts everything
“And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.”
Genesis 3:6 KJV
How adams transgression happened which made him a sinner too
“And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;”
Genesis 3:17 KJV
He listened to his wife , who listened to the serpent and the false doctrine led them both to transgression.
sounds like eve started a “grace revolution “ where it doesn’t matter what you do the fruit won’t harm you like the lord said to me lol ….
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Evil is what what humanity does throughout human history.
Love for others is strangely absent in human history.
I don't think we can really learn to love others.
The human condition by default is deeply selfish.
I can judge others easily and I am good at it.
To love others, put them first, share their suffering, weep with them.
Nah that's not me.
I do believe that love is a gift of the Holy Spirit.
Love for others is strangely absent in human history.
I don't think we can really learn to love others.
The human condition by default is deeply selfish.
I can judge others easily and I am good at it.
To love others, put them first, share their suffering, weep with them.
Nah that's not me.
I do believe that love is a gift of the Holy Spirit.
No. His cancelled debt was the result of the grace of his master. The servant's failure to accept that grace and rest in it like Paul did (rejection of grace) meant he had no grace (power) to forgive others. Had he truly accepted the grace of the master for what it was, he would have been a different man, ie. a forgiving man.
This is an example of being disingenuous having made one's mind up regarding the answer before even asking the question.
Have a real nice day sir.
This is an example of being disingenuous having made one's mind up regarding the answer before even asking the question.
Have a real nice day sir.
Look what it says....
That tells us?
They did not know good and evil before they ate.
They had to become able to know good and evil.
You wish to think they did know before?
To persist the thinking as you are doing?
In light of what Genesis 3:22 says?
Would constitute evil. For God's Word does not lie.
And the Lord God said, ‘The man has now become
like one of us, knowing good and evil." (Gen 3:22a)
like one of us, knowing good and evil." (Gen 3:22a)
That tells us?
They did not know good and evil before they ate.
They had to become able to know good and evil.
You wish to think they did know before?
To persist the thinking as you are doing?
In light of what Genesis 3:22 says?
Would constitute evil. For God's Word does not lie.
No. His cancelled debt was the result of the grace of his master. The servant's failure to accept that grace and rest in it like Paul did (rejection of grace) meant he had no grace (power) to forgive others. Had he truly accepted the grace of the master for what it was, he would have been a different man, ie. a forgiving man.
This is an example of being disingenuous having made one's mind up regarding the answer before even asking the question.
Have a real nice day sir.
This is an example of being disingenuous having made one's mind up regarding the answer before even asking the question.
Have a real nice day sir.
Not, having the power to find oneself doing (automatically) what we may learn afterwards was what the Word tells us is right.
We walk in a mystery when walking in grace...
.......
Look what it says....
That tells us?
They did not know good and evil before they ate.
They had to become able to know good and evil.
You wish to think they did know before?
To persist the thinking as you are doing?
In light of what Genesis 3:22 says?
Would constitute evil. For God's Word does not lie.
And the Lord God said, ‘The man has now become
like one of us, knowing good and evil." (Gen 3:22a)
like one of us, knowing good and evil." (Gen 3:22a)
That tells us?
They did not know good and evil before they ate.
They had to become able to know good and evil.
You wish to think they did know before?
To persist the thinking as you are doing?
In light of what Genesis 3:22 says?
Would constitute evil. For God's Word does not lie.
God didn't say this until Adam changed his wife's name to Eve.
and God only said this of Adam, not Eve.
but you agree with Satan, that committing sin makes you like God?
that's nonsensical.
No, I learned morality by watching you commit sin.
I learned by trusting God's word as true and finding it actually worked. None of us are righteous by our own reckoning. We are made righteous through faith. Even Jesus, in His humanity, relied on the word of God to be made right.
You seem to be having a very hard time understanding how we learn and become right about what's good and evil.
I learned by trusting God's word as true and finding it actually worked. None of us are righteous by our own reckoning. We are made righteous through faith. Even Jesus, in His humanity, relied on the word of God to be made right.
You seem to be having a very hard time understanding how we learn and become right about what's good and evil.